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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:58 am 
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Phil:

I always love your sea stories with their twist of irony! Swords indeed, but harkens back t the days of John Paul Jones and Steven Decatur. The Royal Navy was successful for centuries because of their fighting traditions. I spent some time training with the RCN and one could feel the overhanging scent of that tradition, even amongst the colonials. Modern wokeism permeating the USN is the opposite attribute.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:59 am 
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Tks!

On 22 October 1936, the Royal Navy withdrew the cutlass from use by its sailors when they were landed for duty. It was still retained for ceremonial purposes and some ships and establishments still used it for this purpose. The largest ships had them and the smallest had 10.

Royal Navy swords

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Royal Navy sailors have been using cutlasses, short, broad swords, since the early 18th century. Originally they were of non-uniform design, but the 1804 model, the first standard naval sword, was introduced in the early 19th century. It was a blunt weapon that may have been intended for cutting canvas and rope rather than as a combat weapon. The 1845 model of cutlass had a bowl-shaped handguard that offered better protection, with a longer, more curved blade. Its sharper point made it more useful for thrusting attacks, which were now emphasised in the drill manual. The 1845 model was modified several times, including shortening and straightening the blades, which weakened them.

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The 1889 model had a straight, spear-shaped blade with an outwardly curved handle to catch and redirect the tip of the opponent's sword. The 1900 model, the last naval cutlass, was similar to its predecessor with the introduction of a bead and grip insert that cushioned the user's little finger. The cutlass was withdrawn from service in 1936 but remains in ceremonial use. It is thought to have been last used in combat in 1900, during the Boxer Rebellion.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:38 pm 
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A lot of little things have been added or modified, today a lot of work has started, to add many details seen on the last pictures found on the internet.

You have to look at these pictures many times to discover all these details that sometimes escape our eye at the beginning.

I had forgotten about the stairs between the rear stack and the launch boat platform. I still have to add fuel tanks to fill up the motorboats.

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•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 11:35 am 
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Pascal,

I did a short presentation on 3D printing to the local boat modeling club on Saturday morning, and i wanted to let you know that when I was asked about building ships from plans, and what the process is, I opened this thread and used your progress here as a demonstration to the membership of how it is done, and what some of the steps are.

For my part, I can't even get to the point where I can draw a lifeboat from plans and extend it into a 3D object. Your work is simply exquisite.

Some of the older gents were bemoaning the loss of the art of scratchbuilding. To which I pointed out that in this case, YOU ARE scratchbuilding the ship - just electronically, rather than carving out of wood or plastic.

The membership were overall very impressed by your progress.

NS

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 5:48 pm 
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Your message touched me a lot. You have done well. :thumbs_up_1:

Thank you for using this topic to present what is possible with modern techniques applied by a simple amateur.

This type of process is a present and future revolution, without overshadowing the traditional method, far from it. A bit like the PE which came to revolutionize the model, several ten years ago.

I believe that the debate is not to put back to back two techniques to build a model, but to improve them and to have an additional tool to achieve an original model.

Besides, the two techniques can be mixed and give very good results.

It is not given to everyone to draw in 3D, nor to do scratchbuilding.

The things evolve irremediably in the field of the model. And I would say fortunately, it can attract young people (and old people! Like me) to this very time consuming hobby and much more instructive historically and manually speaking than other more virtual hobbies like gaming.

Because in the end you have to print, adjust, paint and glue the elements you designed yourself, which is not an easy task.

It also often puts you in front of your mistakes and you have to start over again to make it perfect.

The other attraction as the traditional full scratch as the background of talented people on this forum, is the pleasure of creating a model not commercialized and that can give ideas and a guide to manufacturers who would like to be inspired by the designs I make public to release a commercial project.

The other advantage is to be able to make copies or variants of a ship throughout its life, especially military ships, more easily, without having to start the project completely, it would otherwise be very tedious.

The first and greatest pleasure is of course for the person who creates this original model.

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•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:13 pm 
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well put! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

JB

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:24 am 
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It would be very difficult to determine, where 'scratchbuilding' ends - hand-tools, hand-held machine tools, machine-tools (lathe, mill), CNC, 3D-printing ? The point is that it is a creative process that turns information (historical drawings, photographs, narratives, ...) into a 3D-interpretation of the real thing at a reduced scale. This is, if your model work has such objective.

Other people are more interested in the haptic process of creating 'something' with their hands or a specific set of tools - the object and its naturalistic rendering is less or not important at all for them.

If one belongs to the first group, one should the best and most suitable techniques that one can lay hands on ...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:55 pm 
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Perhaps one can somewhat bridge both of those worlds. I like building things but also tend to have some historical connection to the ships I build. My "thing" is to avoid any commercial parts which I have so far been able to achieve, as progress is made, with better results. The design program I use does not yield captivating renders of a rather perfect virtual world, so the emphasis is on actually building things with all their imperfections and warts. For quite a few years I was involved in the flight simulator community and though not designing the aircraft themselves, I was fairly successful at doing the flight dynamics, which made the planes fly in a faithful manner. So a virtual world can be entertaining.

As to assembling the parts into a complete ship model, even from 3D printing, serious challenges in thought and dexterity are still encountered. Ship modeling has various interest groups, a broad tent! Researching and reading the various threads continually increases knowledge for the inquiring mind.

Thanks to all! Tom


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:01 pm 
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Tks Gentlemen, we're in agreement. :thumbs_up_1:

I started to draw the hull plates on this light file which will be used to cut the hull sections that will be printed, a very long work.

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•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:36 pm 
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are you going to see the plates at 1/200 scale if the model is 32.625"/83cm long?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:00 pm 
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We can see them very well, from my previous experiences.

On this ship I made the shallower impressions because on the real ship you can't see the plates much because it's extremely tight and the rivets are flush with the sheet metal.

Here I drew 0.2 mm impressions. It should be perfect for the final rendering.

Here it's 0,3 mm on SS Hydrograaf.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=329319

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•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:02 am 
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I have seen many discussions about how much detail is enough on a model, and in the end it depends upon what the modeler wants to add, or what limit is set. But in most cases the discussions center on what would be visible from the real ship at some distance and a corresponding viewing distance at scale.

In the photo below you can see the hull plating from a distance of 50-100 feet (15-30 meters), a fairly close distance in the real world, corresponding to a viewing distance of a foot (25 mm) or so at 1:100. This would be a reasonable close viewing distance for the model. Even in photos taken a few hundred yards/meters distant the shadows from the edges of some strakes are still visible.

If I ever get around to building the 1:96 scale model of the ship I will include the hull plating - but not the rivets! Even though the CAD model has every nut, bolt, screw and rivet down to 3/16 inch (4.7 mm) at 1:1 scale (at least half the 1 Gbyte file is fasteners) almost all of these are too small at 1:96 scale to bother with.

Phil


Attachments:
1 OK City at anchor 1024 C.jpg
1 OK City at anchor 1024 C.jpg [ 163.5 KiB | Viewed 191 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:14 am 
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Phil:

Perhaps you meant 25 cm? Easy to slip? I remember reading a text that said one could omit ship items smaller than 2'. With 3D we can well represent much smaller items. For WWII ships the extreme clutter of the topsides was a constant feature except for larger warships such as Battleships which did have some space for lounge chairs. What we need for smaller details is photo documentation. A single photo can have a wealth of small items to add. However we are stuck with many areas that are not covered. For my APA there was a movie shot aboard and each still I captured had a wealth of small items contained.

We all hope that you are able to turn your cruiser into a flesh and blood model. That would be a learning experience for all of us!

Regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:56 pm 
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Totally agree, once again...

It's ending! Image

There is still the bottom of the ship to do, but that's going fast.

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The plating adds a lot to the realism:

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•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:24 pm 
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Tom,

Yep! 25.4 mm is an inch! That would be close viewing. 30.5 cm is a foot.

I think 0.008 inch (0.2 mm) is about as small as I want to try to model.

Phil

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:25 am 
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With my 3D printer (filament type) it goes as small as 0.4mm - unless I change the nozzle and then it goes to 0.25mm. I've not tried that yet.

From my perspective, I'm working on a 1/96 scale ship, and so there's some small bits that just won't be there. I'm not going to make padlocks on lockers...not going to happen. The locker needs to be represented though.

How do I decide? I like your input of 'if it's smaller than 2 feet, I don't do it', but that would leave a lot of empty space around the edge of the flight deck. So, I'm printing things that I think I can both paint and install. Wheel chocks - individual? No. The racks of 8-16 wheel chocks? yes. Not a perfect representation of them, but a grey rack, with yellow chocks is representative of what they are/were.

I'm not losing sleep over not including some detail bits. I have seen all but one of the 'local' HMCS Bonaventure models, and even spoken with the builder of two of them. My version already has more detail than the ones on display in the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic, the Atlantic Canada Aviation Museum, and the Shearwater Aviation Museum. It's not a builder's reference model, it's a functional RC model ship.

I'm happy with that.

And, because it's functional, I expect that I'm going to break some bits when I launch and recover it - so having them 3D printed means that I just go and re-print, re-paint, and re-place.

NS

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:51 am 
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There is also the viewing-distance dilemma: if I am observering a model at arm's length, certain details won't be discernible or only in their outlines, however, unless the model is presented in true diorama fashion with a fixed viewing distance, the observer may move closer until the nose almost touches the model to inspect it in detail - and then you need the detail that is not discernible at greater distance.

The same applies, incidentally, for close-up photographs. If a model is designed for a certain viewing distance, then you should not take close-up shots or you will attract negative comments.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:57 pm 
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:thumbs_up_1:

Drawing the linoleum plates of deck 1 and the forecastle.

I'm preparing deck 2 to draw them too, I have to arrange the front parts by group, because I have to make impressions to facilitate the gluing of the parts when it will be printed. Very long and tedious operations, but very useful for the assembly, it's the first time I'm doing this.

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There is camber, on the first 2 main decks, which does not make it easy to draw some elements, like linoleum, or even the move itself because of the irregularity of the edges of the decks, casemates etc... It's not easy.

Well, this boat has no shear, that's something, flat as a flatfish! :lol:

I'm almost done with the linoleum on deck 2, the upper deck of the C turret remains.

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Footprints of the elements

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•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:04 pm 
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Incredible talent you've got there. That really is stunning. Would love to see this available as a mainstream injection molded kit.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:15 am 
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Thank you for your encouragement, Martin.

It's not planned, I'm doing this for fun, but maybe my online drawings can motivate and inspire producers of injected models?

The camber is a little more pronounced normally.

Image

Sectioning plan of the hull for printing.

For the cuts, you have to be careful not to fall on a porthole, an edge of sheet metal, or any protuberances, because it will be necessary to sand at this level after gluing and sometimes put putty if necessary, which will erase what is on the surface. As for the window, it may not be round anymore.

For the rear and the lines of trees it is necessary to try to print all in the same section by taking into account the rules above.  :lol:  

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•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•VLCC Olympic Bravery 3D: https://vu.fr/OZMY
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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