The Ship Model Forum

Shouldn't there be a wooden (sacrificial) bolster under the rear end? All French carriages from that time I have seen seem to have it and it looks logical, as you don't want to have the angle-irons scraping along the deck.

Somehow, however, this looks to me more like a modern display carriage. Just two sheets of iron don't seem to be stiff enough to take the force of recoil. Normally there would have been an iron frame that is covered on both sides with sheet-iron for cross-stiffening. At least that was the way French and German gun-carriages of the time were constructed.

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Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Nope. They added a caster sort of thing to train the gun, and a different style of elevation mechanism. I think there may have been a wooden bolster, or bumper, forward for when the gun was run up, but the only evidence I have for that is a rotting bit of wood on the front of one of these sitting in a park.
These are definitely NOT "display carriages." BTW: If you look closely at photos of extant carriages, those skids appear to be bronze. as do the trunnion fittings.


This is basically the same concept of carriage used on the early iron carriage XI inch pivots, of which, here's a survivor


And here's one in-service

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Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
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I contacted the people that manage HMS Warrior about possibly getting drawings or plans of the main deck gun carriages (they had to replicate them from something, right?) They got back to me saying that department was closed down for a while because their systems were hacked.

I found a rough PDF of the 1875 Navy Ordnance & Gunnery Manual, and a little more looking turned up a much better scan which contained this bit of info on the XI Dahlgren on the wrought iron pivot mount.



I had been working from a very nice drawing I found on Deviant Art, but it turns out at wasn't a real gun, but a movie-prop used in the 1960's 40,000 Leagues Under the Sea (I was wondering how that compressor was supposed to function...



I rearranged, replaced, and rebuilt my 3D model of the XI pivot based on the 1875 manual and some photos. I'm working toward an early version of this gun mount. They got a lot of modifications going into the 1880s, dampers, gears, the gun's trunnions got cut off so they wouldn't poke out past the cap squares, etc.



There was also a drawing of a later version of the "Iron Marsilly" There's some shape problems with my model I need to fix with this new data. I may also make one with the later elevation screw shown in the drawing.
The drawing says it's an 8 inch Dahlgren rifle, which is a 9" smoothbore sleeved and rifled.

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

The XI gun on the iron pivot is getting close to done


Page 327 of the 1875 manual is a drawing of the wrought iron carriage for, it says, the 8 inch Dahlgren, which is a 9 inch smoothbore sleeved and rifled.


It seems the drawing I originally worked from was off a bit in dimensions and shape, so I reworked my model to match the manual.
The carriage shown in the manual is a later modified version with one of the holes in the side plates filled, and a different elevation set-up. I'm making the original version, but I'll probably do the modified version as well.


During the 1870's, Constellation was a training ship and fitted with two pivot guns at enlarged ports on her gun-deck; an XI inch Dahlgren on an iron pivot carriage, and a 100 pd Parrot rifle on a wooden pivot carriage.
She also carried 8 IX inch guns, which I assumed were on Marsilly carriages. I'm still digging to find if maybe they were iron carriages?

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

I finished updating the IX on a wrought-iron carriage to the latest data and posted it on Thingiverse.


Then I dabbled on the XV inch Dahlgren until it was done and posted as well. I'm not making a mount for this gun, but leaving it to whomever downloads it to fill that need. I did model a hole for the elevation screw, a touch-hole, and a slotted hammer lobe on the breech (I need to look up some of the nomenclature again).


Finally, I "finished" the XI Dahlgren on the wrought-iron pivot carriage and slide. I may have to comer back to this one, but it's got all I can give it for now.
As it's one of the guns in my Guns of Constellation project, it's the one I actually need to print, though my first try at this failed because of a hole in the FEP and resin leakage to clean up.



Here's the best shot of the real thing I can find to compare to...

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

Having built something like that from scratch using traditional methods (if photoetching and laser-cutting can be already considered 'traditional'), this 3D-printed example seems to provide a considerable gain in time (and perhaps quality), particularly when one needs more than one specimen.

_________________
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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If you're doing a ship with some 28ish IX inch Dahlgrens on Marsilly carriages; that would be a project all by itself.

I just wish I could wrap my brain around Blender so I could model the filigree carvings on the ship's bow. I have an eye for that stuff, good enough to see how awful my hand is at it.

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

I did something like this in 2D for my laser-cutter and then build the sculpting with white glue and acrylic paint.

You could do it also in 2D as thinnish element for the printer and then build up the volume in the 'traditional' way - that is, if you want to duck the challenge with Blender.

_________________
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site

After completing the gun for l'Orenoque, I went back to complete the taller carriage based on LaFay's plate #7




Both models are available on Thingiverse

_________________
Jerry

~>Constellation 1856
~>3D Modeled Naval Guns 1850s~1870s
~>My Gallery
~>My Thingiverse stuff
~>My Web Site