The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:40 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 323 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:29 am 
Offline
Back-Aft Models
Back-Aft Models

Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:44 am
Posts: 2810
Location: Omaha, NE, USA
Callen,

The most impressive part of this model in my opinion, besides the fact that it was scratch built, has got to be the rigging. It is the most ambitious, courageous, and meticulous rigging that I've seen. There were lines that could have been omitted (items that I would have said, "Naah." to; or "Good enough.") and you went all the way.

I assume that you brought an Opti-Visor with you, too.

You had figures in mind for this ship? Wow! I'm torn between if figures could add anything more to this impressive model, or not. I'm sure that the figures would also be the most impressive that I've seen.

:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
Carl Musselman

Image

My Photo Album


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:59 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Neal, she's wondeful. I could mine a thesaurus for well earned superlatives, but let's leave it at a most sincere *wonderful*, in every sense of the word's meaning.

What a story, too; finishing in the hotel at the last minute?

And, you won. :woo_hoo:

This thread has really been something else; it exemplifies the best that can be found at ModelWarships.com. Kinda gives you the warm fuzzies. :big_grin:

Congratulations on your First Place Scratchbuild at the Nationals, congratulations on this beautiful, wonderful model, and thank you for being an inspiration for me to get off my lazy katorkus.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:23 am
Posts: 2334
Location: Copenhagen
The carrack is really fantastic!

Congratulations on your first place. :shipcaptain:

_________________
Image


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:26 am
Posts: 1686
Location: The Netherlands
That, Callen, is one very well deserved award. (all of them are, really). I can only hope to achieve a small part of the atmosphere and detail you did when I start on my version of this one.

Hat's off, sir! :woo_hoo:

_________________
If all else fails, a complete pig-headed refusal to see facts in the face will see us through. - General Melchett


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
j.mahieux wrote:
Hi Neal,
Fantastic job, realy marvellous!!!!
Jean


Mon Ami Jean! How are you? Very good to hear from you my friend. I have some pictures coming soon to you of 'Life in Oklahoma.' Good luck on 'Le Grand Projet!' :woo_hoo: Telford won't know what hit them! :thumbs_up_1:

JP64 wrote:
Incredible !!
Jp


Thank you sir! Thanks for stopping by and commenting. :wave_1:

Dave Wooley wrote:
Callen I can only stand back and marvel at your ability and dexterity. I guess if I had just 1% of your amazing skill I would never finish a model . It's a great pleasure seeing such a model developed , and take the form it does. You sir are a master craftsman and artist combined.
Dave Wooley


Your comments are very kind Dave, and recognition from master modelers like you and Ron has really meant a lot to me over these past few months. You guys are the profs for the rest of us to learn from.

Actually I have a terrible time finishing models, but I'm not sure it's because of skill... it might just be 'completionitis' as they say. But there's nothing like a contest to help get your butt in gear. :big_grin: Thanks again for dropping by. :wave_1:

NukeMM wrote:
Callen,

The most impressive part of this model in my opinion, besides the fact that it was scratch built, has got to be the rigging. It is the most ambitious, courageous, and meticulous rigging that I've seen. There were lines that could have been omitted (items that I would have said, "Naah." to; or "Good enough.") and you went all the way.


Thanks Carl. Much appreciated. I enjoy rigging, so that helps. It's a challenge though, to get it really clean like I'm used to seeing on your builds and Vlads, Kostas', Jim's etc. It was really providential I didn't have any major screw ups those last two days in Omaha. If I had had just one major slip of the finger and broke a mast, etc. That would have been the end, and I would have had nothing to enter after 9 months of work. Kind of got lucky with that, and hope I don't have to repeat the experience.

NukeMM wrote:
I assume that you brought an Opti-Visor with you, too.


I don't use them, although I probably should. So far my eyes are still in good shape, thank God.

NukeMM wrote:
You had figures in mind for this ship? Wow! I'm torn between if figures could add anything more to this impressive model, or not. I'm sure that the figures would also be the most impressive that I've seen.


The thing about Renaissance era figures is that you can give them things like pikes and trumpets, and they wear colors like gold and bright green etc. I am planning on figures for the poop deck, but I want to take a little break from carracks for the time being, just so I don't get burned out on them... Thinking of starting a '41 Akagi actually, haven't decided if I'm going to blog it or not...

Tom L. wrote:
Neal, she's wondeful. I could mine a thesaurus for well earned superlatives, but let's leave it at a most sincere *wonderful*, in every sense of the word's meaning.


Thank you Tom. That's exactly the feeling I had when I saw your carrack the first time. You got the ball rolling. I just kicked it down the field a bit. :thumbs_up_1:

Tom L. wrote:
What a story, too; finishing in the hotel at the last minute?

And, you won. :woo_hoo:


Wish you'd been there to see it. It was a lot of fun. I'm very grateful for the recognition.

Tom L. wrote:
This thread has really been something else; it exemplifies the best that can be found at ModelWarships.com. Kinda gives you the warm fuzzies. :big_grin:


It's a lot of fun to do. And it's such a great group of guys around here. I had no idea when I started it how supportive and helpful the community would be. I think sharing the hobby in this way really adds to the experience. I've learned a lot from everyone here, history, techniques and tips, modeling in general, competitions, etc. and it's all been positive. You'd think there'd be one or two bad apples, but I haven't run into any. Maybe it has to do with scratch-building? I don't know.

Tom L. wrote:
Congratulations on your First Place Scratchbuild at the Nationals, congratulations on this beautiful, wonderful model, and thank you for being an inspiration for me to get off my lazy katorkus.


Thank you sir! Like I said, you and Lars (maxim) got me going on this. Looking forward to your progress. Cheers! :wave_1:

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
maxim wrote:
The carrack is really fantastic!

Congratulations on your first place. :shipcaptain:


Thank you Maxim! Good to hear from you. I will be in touch! :wave_1:

MichelB wrote:
That, Callen, is one very well deserved award. (all of them are, really). I can only hope to achieve a small part of the atmosphere and detail you did when I start on my version of this one.

Hat's off, sir! :woo_hoo:


I can't wait Michel! Feel free to post the pics here or start your own thread. I have been thinking I might pair your ships with the new Niko Java, what do you think? Did they ever serve together?

At any rate I think I can say I'm as excited to see what others will do with these carracks as I have been to do it myself. Keep me posted on your efforts! Cheers! :wave_1:

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
Hello Model Warship and Happy New Year~! :wave_1:
Here's to a great 2012 for all concerned. :thumbs_up_1:

Well my friends, it's been a long time since anything was posted here on the Carrack Channel, but I thought I'd update my progress for you all. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the plan is to create multiple carracks, so despite the success of the Fora at the IPMS Nationals this year, the carrack story is by no means over. :woo_hoo: My immediate plan is to complete an additional Portuguese carrack to accompany the Fora on her water base, with a few auxiliaries as well, perhaps a caravel or two, to complete a Levantine (Ragusan) Argosy, an Explorer Nao and a late Medieval Flemish Carrack. All of these can be completed with the PE I have on hand. If I am able to talk my good friend Bruno Gire into additional PE, I may eventually be able to create more carracks in addition to these.

First up, and furthest along is the Flemish Carrack, which is now reaching the point where she will need a name. Here are the pics of my progress so far. :thumbs_up_1:

Attachment:
FlemDec2.jpg
FlemDec2.jpg [ 51.21 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Rigging the Shrouds. Because of the early configuration of this carrack, and due to the fact that she is based (loosely) on the 'W.A. Kraek' print seen here:
Attachment:
Fattyfeb-mar15.jpg
Fattyfeb-mar15.jpg [ 89.53 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]

this ship does not have ratlines for the shrouds, but rather will feature a simple rope ladder ('Jacob's Ladder') running the length of the mast to the fighting top. I chose this subject both for her archaic features, and for the fact that it will not need precious PE shroud/ratline sets to complete. :thumbs_up_1:
Attachment:
FlemDec3.jpg
FlemDec3.jpg [ 61.44 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Material used is once again the 'uni thread' that I used on both the Beja and the Fora.
Attachment:
FlemDec4.jpg
FlemDec4.jpg [ 60.81 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec5.jpg
FlemDec5.jpg [ 77.89 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec6.jpg
FlemDec6.jpg [ 58.05 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec7.jpg
FlemDec7.jpg [ 80.46 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Shrouds complete for all three masts.

How to make a Main Yard Arm? Based on our engraving we can see that the yard is a single piece, and also quite massive. Two large Sewing Needles cut short with the points opposed and glued together in the center are a start. Add to this a thin strip of brass super-glued to the joined pins to help strengthen the joint and hopefully prevent breakage, something I suffered from in previous attempts to scratch my own tapered yards.
Attachment:
FlemDec8.jpg
FlemDec8.jpg [ 27.63 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
PE for the mainmast fighting top.
Attachment:
FlemDec10.jpg
FlemDec10.jpg [ 55.99 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec11.jpg
FlemDec11.jpg [ 41.61 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]
Shaping the top...

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:23 am
Posts: 2334
Location: Copenhagen
Nice to see you continue with the carracks. :thumbs_up_1:

Interesting that they had shrouds without ratlines - making it easy for the modeller.

_________________
Image


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
Looking over these sewing needles, I kept wondering what other uses they could be put to. The needle sans the point might be used at some point to model a mast, with the thread hole serving to receive the shrouds, a feature that was sometimes seen on ships of this era. But what if we were to cut the hole end of the needle short and use the needle end with a hole as a knight bitt? That was the thinking here...
Attachment:
FlemDec12.jpg
FlemDec12.jpg [ 37.81 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec14.jpg
FlemDec14.jpg [ 26.66 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
I painted into the thread hole to make it as small as possible.
Attachment:
FlemDec15.jpg
FlemDec15.jpg [ 45.8 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Cut short it serves just about the right size for a knight's bitt.
Attachment:
FlemDec16.jpg
FlemDec16.jpg [ 50.75 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Mizzen lateen yard mounted.
Attachment:
FlemDec17.jpg
FlemDec17.jpg [ 53.54 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
An improv'd knight bitt mounted next to the foremast. Two-part Lateen Yard & knight bitt.
Attachment:
FlemDec18.jpg
FlemDec18.jpg [ 56.43 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec19.jpg
FlemDec19.jpg [ 41.76 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Painting the main yard. I decided to try an experiment: what if we thicken the diameter of the yard with paint? So I tried it, laying several thick coats, concentrating the paint towards the center with each layer... To my surprise it actually worked! :woo_hoo: With the wolding bands in place the irregularities of the paint coverage are obscured. The yard looks symmetrically progressively thicker. This is great news, because it means I don't have to worry about turned brass for the yards any more! :woo_hoo:
Attachment:
FlemDec20.jpg
FlemDec20.jpg [ 50.87 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
All yards mounted.

Wow. I'm actually ready for the sails. Only three yards on this puppy. Very primitive. Ok. wetted paper dinner napkin on clear sheet styrene, laying the tight bond wood glue on top and preparing to smooth it into the paper with my finger.
Attachment:
FlemDec21.jpg
FlemDec21.jpg [ 48.23 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
maxim wrote:
Nice to see you continue with the carracks. :thumbs_up_1:


Hello Lars! Yes! It feels good to be back in the saddle!...
Or maybe I should say, 'back in the after castle?' :huh:

maxim wrote:
Interesting that they had shrouds without ratlines - making it easy for the modeller.


Yes indeed. There are all sorts of sailing subjects that do not require ratlines: To name a few:
Any Italian warship prior to the Galleon.
Any ancient sailing ship.
Any junk or other Asian sailing vessel.
Medieval types such as the cog, nef, hulk, etc. can be rigged without ratlines, etc.

However, I am also looking at creating some sort of jig to attempt (once again) to create my own shroud/ratline sets. This (hopefully) will be easier than trying to lay the ratlines in after the shrouds are mounted.

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
Attachment:
FlemDec22.jpg
FlemDec22.jpg [ 43.96 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Smoothing the glue into the wetted paper.
Attachment:
FlemDec24.jpg
FlemDec24.jpg [ 72.95 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
First layer dry.
Attachment:
FlemDec25.jpg
FlemDec25.jpg [ 82.49 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Running the internal rigging across the sail jig. This picture shows the completed process with the second layer of paper already in place. The nylon monofilament lines show through easily.
Attachment:
FlemDec26.jpg
FlemDec26.jpg [ 56.24 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Maintop mounted. note the mast is a single piece. There is no stepping for an upper mast because there are no upper courses; on the mainmast only a single massive sail. In researching sailing rig development I was surprised to discover that a single large sail is the most efficient configuration for a wind powered vessel. The multiple sails and masts were developed not to increase power or efficiency in the sails, but to fine tune and improve control of the vessel.
Attachment:
FlemDec27.jpg
FlemDec27.jpg [ 41.04 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
The three sails of our medieval carrack are now roughed out and 'posed' in place.
Attachment:
FlemDec28.jpg
FlemDec28.jpg [ 51.8 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Close up of the massive main sail blank prior to shaping.
Attachment:
FlemDec29.jpg
FlemDec29.jpg [ 43 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec30.jpg
FlemDec30.jpg [ 43.41 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec31.jpg
FlemDec31.jpg [ 40.39 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Shaping. I followed the same process shaping these sails as I had for the Fora. The difference being that these are plain and lacking any internal decals.
Attachment:
FlemDec32.jpg
FlemDec32.jpg [ 41.44 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Mainsail mounted. I was so happy with my yard that I decided to glue the upper edge of the sail to the bottom of the yard, so that the shape could be clearly seen, rather than obscuring the shape of the yard with the sail, as I had done on the Fora. Unfortunately, in the process the yard broke free from the mast and had to be re glued. :heh:

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
Attachment:
FlemDec33.jpg
FlemDec33.jpg [ 46.74 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec34.jpg
FlemDec34.jpg [ 32.71 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec36.jpg
FlemDec36.jpg [ 50.5 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec37.jpg
FlemDec37.jpg [ 77.48 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
We'd better get this puppy mounted before we go much further!
Attachment:
FlemDec39.jpg
FlemDec39.jpg [ 35.83 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec40.jpg
FlemDec40.jpg [ 38.63 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Attachment:
FlemDec41.jpg
FlemDec41.jpg [ 55.73 KiB | Viewed 677 times ]
Sailing the seas of goop... once the liquitex gloss acrylic gel dries it will hopefully resemble water. The ship is affixed to the base by means of the gel, which is similar in consistency to the silicone rubber cement used in glass aquarium tanks. She slips and slides in the goop right now as I try to shape the waves, but once dry she will be quite secure on the base. That's all for now. Happy Modeling! :wave_1:

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:59 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Super work Neal! :thumbs_up_1:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
Tom L. wrote:
Super work Neal! :thumbs_up_1:


Thanks Tom! I saw your post on the 'Model Build Targets 2012' thread and it made me realize I needed to post what I'd done on the carracks. Looking forward to seeing more of your work soon. Cheers! :wave_1:

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:18 am
Posts: 4131
Location: Liverpool
Callan just caught up on your thread WOW this is truly inspiring. I’m really blown away on the methods you put into practice and the great results achieved especially the work on the sails. This is treatise material and have you given any thoughts to submiting your work to specialist publications, if you haven't done so already .A master class for sure. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Dave Wooley


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:10 pm
Posts: 905
Dave Wooley wrote:
Callan just caught up on your thread WOW this is truly inspiring. I’m really blown away on the methods you put into practice and the great results achieved especially the work on the sails. This is treatise material and have you given any thoughts to submiting your work to specialist publications, if you haven't done so already .A master class for sure. :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Dave Wooley


Hello Dave! I hope you are well, and will forgive this reply...which is six years late!
:eyes_spinning:

My goodness. An explanation is in order. In short, I got involved in novel writing, which led to SF modeling in support of the writing, which led to a whole slew of scratch-built spaceship projects. However, over the holiday break I got out some of my old kits and realized how much I had been missing the ship hobby. So! I'm back at it. The Willem Kraek in particular is on the front burner, and I hope to complete it within a month or so, along with a couple of kit builds which I will put up on the WIP forum.

Now, to your comments. Thank you so much for the support, and also for the idea. I think it's very interesting. Rusty White of Flagship Models also approached me about doing a book on these techniques. Since I have gotten into writing quite a bit, and since I generally document all my work, I may decide to put out a book of scratch-building techniques this year. I'd really like to get the 700th scale Cheops Barge, the Galleon and a few galleasses done to include in the book. Not sure yet who I will sell it to, but perhaps there will be someone somewhere interested in a book about out-of-the-box 700th Scale modeling.

At any rate. Hope you are well. Happy New Year to everyone. This thread has just gone live again!
:wave_1:

_________________
Pessimists see the world as it truly is...
Optimists change the world.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:23 am
Posts: 2334
Location: Copenhagen
This book would be for sure interesting!

_________________
Image


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 4433
Location: Nr Southampton England
aha= :woo_hoo: = back from the wilderness! :big_grin:

Good to see you back in the saddle again! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

Best wishes

Jim Baumann
BTW- I also had an excursion into small sailing ships :cool_2:

albeit 1/350 and kit based...
encs links

old 1545
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

more recent -late 1960's
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=165003&start=20#p727329

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:48 am
Posts: 463
Location: La Rochelle, France
Welcome back my friend :wave_1:
_Bruno

_________________
A day spent without laughing is a wasted day!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:56 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3091
Location: USA
Yes, indeed, welcome back!

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 2000 products for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 323 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 9 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group