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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:22 pm 
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Glad to help.

MANY years ago I built a plastic model of a troop transport - probably Revell. I thought it was an interesting ship.

Your model is very nice, and an interesting change from another battleship or carrier. The "auxiliaries" don't get enough attention in our hobby.

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:30 am 
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Actually sitting on my workbench is a Revell APA that I glued together when maybe I was 10? Amazingly it is the Randall, which is the ship I am building. I think the reason they chose that ship was it was the ship in the movie.

I did find that my bundle of small dowels is just the right size though I have to split them in half. I have to now look at photos and see where and what length they are and how many have D guards.

Cheers! T.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:52 pm 
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I built the first prototype drain cover with D rings. Looks like about 25 per side of varying lengths. Thats only about 1 drain for every 25 troops...

I decided the LCVP's are too fat so grinding down the sides and re finishing. That will keep me busy for a while!


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:58 pm 
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The Randall is the model I built. Mine was history more than half a century ago. Amazing that you still have yours.

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:06 am 
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It sat in a box in my parents attic for fifty some years. I retrieved it when my sister and I cleared their house out. The hull of my current project sat in their attic for almost as long.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:38 pm 
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Ah, rainy days! Making pulleys. So far about 50 of the little buggers and I am sure there will be more. Then there are the 50 or so overboard discharge pipes, so far I have made one. If there is a square centimeter without something on it, I've overlooked something.

No cruise ship, I can't imagine the 1200 Marines had any deck space to promenade on.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Attachment:
bitts stack.jpg
bitts stack.jpg [ 288.77 KiB | Viewed 252 times ]


Have about half the overboard discharge pipes done.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:07 pm 
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Starting to add overboard discharge pipes.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:08 pm 
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Today making more discharge pipes (another side to do) and added rows of pad eyes to the flare of the bow, used for attaching work stages for painting etc.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:02 pm 
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Still have to make and attach more discharge pipes on the port side. Added pad eyes at the bow flair. Brass wire, when painted they will be less obvious, as they should be. Anchors are carved from basswood, the reinforcing below them is from folded paper.

Attachment:
bow pad eyes 1.jpg
bow pad eyes 1.jpg [ 263.73 KiB | Viewed 208 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:56 pm 
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Dr Phil:

The method of using press apply lettering as masks sounds interesting. There is not a good availability for these here. Do you know what type face USN used during WWII. Each boat will require it's own ship ID and individual number, there are a lot of these!

Cheers! Tom


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:38 am 
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Tom,

I don't know what the font was called other than "Navy."

I have attached the blueprints for letters and numbers. The shape should be the same for all US Navy ships in WWII. The size would be scaled for the application.

Phil


Attachments:
CL55 R7F1240 lettering.jpg
CL55 R7F1240 lettering.jpg [ 394.15 KiB | Viewed 169 times ]
CL55 R7F1244 numbers.jpg
CL55 R7F1244 numbers.jpg [ 382.21 KiB | Viewed 169 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:35 am 
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Thanks Phil!

Interesting that the numbers have rounded corners and the letters do not. The type face may be called "Military Block". Not having much luck finding press apply type lettering so far in suitable type. Going to be a lot of letters and numbers as every boat has the ship number plus boat ID, on both sides.

I noticed that Magoffin had the ships name on the stern in what may have been Helvitica, black lettering, as opposed to the other letters and numbers in White.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:44 am 
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I think black lettering was common for the ships' names on the stern. Hull numbers were white with a black "shadow." All other hull lettering (depth markers, etc.) was just white with no shadows.

For the number of labels you need you might think of trying decals. The catch is that you want white letters and very few printers can print white. A few years ago there was one "home" printer that did print white (silver, gold, and several other special colors), but I don't recall the name right now. I think it used colored wax that was melted and "spit" onto the paper/plastic/whatever. Xerox has some printers that use wax, but they don't print white.

You might contact a custom decal company to see what it would cost to get a full set made.

If you figure out how to do it, let us know!

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:41 pm 
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Location: Mocksville, NC
DrPR wrote:
I think black lettering was common for the ships' names on the stern. Hull numbers were white with a black "shadow." All other hull lettering (depth markers, etc.) was just white with no shadows.
For the number of labels you need you might think of trying decals. The catch is that you want white letters and very few printers can print white. A few years ago there was one "home" printer that did print white (silver, gold, and several other special colors), but I don't recall the name right now. I think it used colored wax that was melted and "spit" onto the paper/plastic/whatever. Xerox has some printers that use wax, but they don't print white.
You might contact a custom decal company to see what it would cost to get a full set made.
If you figure out how to do it, let us know!
Phil


Tom, Phil -
I had my hull numbers/name decals (STODDARD) made for me by Stan Cedarleaf (also a forum member, I think). Here is his contact info:

Cedarleaf Custom Decals
3386 N Windsong Dr. Apt 213
Prescott Valley, AZ 86314-1226
mobile - (520) 831-3390
email - scedarleaf@aol.com

He does a process that gives white/black decals as needed.

There are also a couple other USN drawings that apply to hull nos/names for transports & their small craft:
B.U. #S2804-860342, Rev. G
B.U. #S2804-921592-860342-8603
B.U. #S2804-921791, Rev. C

Tom, I've sent you .pdfs of these drawings via email.
Phil - send me an email and I'll send you copies, as well!

Hope this helps,

Hank



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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Last edited by BB62vet on Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:16 pm 
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Thanks for the info Hank! If you have the decals for Stoddard already, even before construction, you are very organized!


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:35 pm 
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Most of the wartime photos I see of ship numbers are too poorly resolved to tell if the shading is used. Some photos of destroyers and cruisers with the small numbers appear to be just plain painted. I also see the ships name either in black or white.

I am sure this was very organized at the time, with some ancient re tread WWI 06 sitting in an office with an equally grizzled Chief Bosun as hi "secretary" and a bunch of draftsmen promulgating specifications for each ship class.

It's a learning experience! I did find some UV cured adhesive as used by fly tiers and it appears to be quite useful!


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:28 pm 
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Tom,

I suspect you are right about the small hull numbers used during WWII. I have a few photos of ships taken close enough to the bow to see that the white hull numbers did not have a black "shadow."

The small white hull number without shadow continued to be used on some ships for some time after the war (through 1948 at least). I have photos of ships during the Korean War (1950 - 53) with the large bow numbers white with the black shadow.

Note: Hank's drawings for the large white letters with black shadows are dated 1949.

I thought i had a picture of the USS Little Rock CL-92 with the large hull numbers dated 1946, but it turns out the date was 1946-49 (NH 94939)!

On some dazzle camouflaged ships there is no hull number on the bow or stern. Some did have the small white hull number on the bow, and I have at least one 1944 photo showing a small black hull number on a light dazzle background.

It looks like the hull name on the stern was also left off on many ships during WWII. If it was there it was either white or black, depending upon the background color - white on dark background, and black on light background.

I do have photos of ship names on the stern that are white over the darker blue-gray hull color used during WWII.

So there doesn't seem to be any Navy-wide standard practice through WWII. By the 1950s the larger white numbers with black shadows and black names on the stern were in common use.

Phil

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle


Last edited by DrPR on Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:41 pm 
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One of the few really glaring frames in the movie "'Away All Boats" is a Fletcher just abaft the starboard stern firing it's 5"38's at an air attack and sporting the huge white, shadowed numbers as used postwar. The wartime photos I can find show the APA's with I believe good sized plain white numbers both bow and stern to identify the ships at a distance to make sure the boats got back to the right ship and keep the invasion fleet organized.

It's been many years since the only Hobby Shop within 400 miles went TU so one has to be inventive in acquiring supplies. I blend my own acrylic paints, brass and piano wire are available at a local ACE hardware, basswood and other items at Michael's, Home "Despot" had the UV adhesive. The Strathmore paper that I like for some structural uses is available at the local art store. It is very archival, models made using it 50 years ago will undoubtedly be good in another 50. I did find some Tamiya style tape at the local Michaels, not cheap stuff!

It's the inventiveness required that is sometimes a frustration, but also the challenges are the gift to the hobby.


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 Post subject: Re: APA project
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:37 pm 
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Attachment:
mast stays.jpg
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Slow progress. Two forward stays added to the Main Mast. Three more to go for each side. Need to make some more turnbuckles, shackles and pad eyes.


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