The Ship Model Forum

DrPR wrote:

Yes, we had the same "holystoning" procedures in use on NEW JERSEY in 1968-69. I think I've mentioned this before, but the Navy had tried using other less physically demanding methods to clean the decks, but returned to this method as it actually works !. If memory serves me correctly, this was usually done after the 16" battery had secured from firing so that the powder residue could be removed from the teak decking before being trampled on and ground into the wood by crew members, etc.

I think that the ship's supply division kept a stash of handles on hand specifically for this purpose; where they stored them, I have no idea (Boatswain's Locker??). A line of sailor all working in unison would slowly clean a section of deck working backwards with others washing the dirt & so forth off with clean water. Yes, it lightened the teak somewhat, but left the deck extremely clean and bright!

Perhaps Pascal with provide Hydrograaf with a few crewmembers to maintain her pristine decking!!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Yes as young man I had the opportunity to do some holystone work on Missouri's decks when she was still in the reserve fleet. Not a common task, being rather labor intensive and lacking the manpower of an in commission crew. In the days of sail the salty tars worked on their knees. I have some (just) post war Eastern Block rifles that appear to have Teak stocks, possibly battleship surplus? Upstairs in my house I have Red Oak floors, a lovely material to walk on. I suppose that modern warships lack the deck force to maintain and with the adoption of A/C the insulating values not as important. A passing connection to centuries of sail.

Great project! Tom

This is a bit off-topic, but I gather today flame-retardant spray-foam would be used for thermal and acoustic insulation. In the old days, the wooden decks on iron and steel ships provided important insulation. The small torpedoboats and destroyers, at least in the early days, only had painted metal decks, which made life below deck quite uncomfortable - noisy from above, trickling condensation and cold. The Austrians used glorified doormats on the decks when in harbour, which also increased the sun reflection on the decks of their Adriatic torpedoboat fleet.

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Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Dutch naval ships in the East Indies used coir (coconut fibre) matting, for just the same purpose.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Of course if action was expected (or possible) such items were put ashore of tossed overboard. In wartime layers of paint were even chipped off and linoleum pulled up to reduce fire hazard. Certainly colonial powers who stationed ships overseas with some regularity such as England or the Netherlands were quite experienced at living in the low latitudes aboard ship with regards to awnings, tropical uniform etc. Images of Cruiser's showing the flag in the 30's come to mind.

Pardon me if I enjoy the nautical discussions that sometimes arise as topics wander a bit.

Cheers: Tom

I personally like the wanderings of the subjects because we learn a lot of things like now.

Today and yesterday:

Drawings of the main deck forward vents and the 2 chimneys of the 2 coal stoves.

A lot of small painting details, steering wheel, spare steering gear (not finished), fitting and gluing of some elements, anchors, mooring bollards, propellers, rudder, forward companionway under forecastle. Forward fairleads in place.

Tested 4 different anchor sizes, 110%, 100%, 90%, 80%.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Pascal:

Nice job painting! Doing hull lines around counter sterns etc can be very fussy!

Good rapid progress!

Regards: Tom

Yes Tom, not very easy, and do not dilute the airbrush paint too much, otherwise...

Drawing of the stoppers that I improved a bit for fun. Typical model of 1900s.

The windlass will follow.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Nice rendering, but I have the feeling that you did not interpret the chain-stoppers quite right. Just checked, but unfortunately I don't seem to have a drawing that I could link. At the back, away from the hawse-pipe there is a section that has the shape of a chain-link, to bottom of which can be raised and lowered with the lever you have drawn. In the raised state, the chain can run out freely, while in the lower state it is blocked. The bow should be in about 1/3 of the lenght from the back and just high enough to let the chain pass. Its function is to prevent the chain from jumping out of the stopper, when running out.

_________________
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Reference your comments about painting the waterline around the curved stern. It is difficult to get a really "straight" waterline.

However I have seen a simple way to do this. Some modellers use a cheap carpenters laser level. It "draws" a horizontal line of light regardless of how contorted the surface might be. You just need to follow the bright line with a pencil or pen to mark a good waterline/boot topping.

And for Pascal and other 3D modelers you might try molding the line into the hull. In the shipyard they often welded a small bead on the hull plating to mark the waterline so when the ship is in drydock for hull painting it is a no-brainer to get the waterline and boot topping correct. Hull numbers and letters were also marked this way.

Think what the hull numbers and lettering would look like if it was up to a sailor hanging over the side or on a rocking float to try to guess which way was horizontal and how large the letters and numbers should be! With the welded beads it was just a paint by number job, no more difficult than a child's coloring book.

Phil

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

My method involves a rather heavy base with adjustable arms which I can equip with pen/pencil or scribe and run around the perimeter of the ship. The stern areas of Missouri and Randall were a little challenging, not so much in the marking, bit more in the masking. The LSM was pretty easy having mostly slab sides. But yes, for a 3D hull, adding the w/l would be an easy mod. The ARL will be slightly more challenging as the bottom of the hull does not follow the baseline.

Currently doing a hull via 3D printing is beyond the capabilities of both my self and the software I use, not to say the size of the printer. So I find this inspiring and interesting!

Kindest regards: Tom

Yes i know very well the stopper system with the cam and it works, very similar to Nomadic one and Titanic.

But I simplified it, because I have to be able to pass my chain without breaking anything. The fid slot will be too small to Print.





















Titanic:

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

That’s the best idea. Next time.

I always used Tom’s method. Work not so bad. The most complicated was to mask the upper tiny white line.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

On my current project I am planning to use thin strips cut from white decal sheet for the boot-toppings and similar trim lines. The UK railroad guys also offer ready-made decal strips of various widths (coach-lining), but they are difficult to get hold of in France.

_________________
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Even on a ship such as Missouri with only moderate curve at the W/L the width of the stripes vary a lot in the curved/ sloped areas. Yes I remember pinstripe decal sheets for decorating model RR rolling stock. Another unique issue with Missouri was that the top and bottom of the boot topping were not equal height stern to bow.

An interesting thing about modeling is there may be many possible solutions! It stimulates the imagination.

Tom

I prefer paint, better integrated into the design, you can choose the colour precisely, durability vs plastic.
But it requires a very precise work.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Beginning of the windlass design which is a bit specific with an anchor chain that runs under the wildcat instead of over it like most windlasses. The chain is guided by an extension from the downpipe to the chain well.

There are also 2 small mooring bollards which are probably mounted on a movable arm, but I don't have enough details, this would be used to redirect a line from the forward fairlead into the windlass headstock. It's ingenious.

As for the rest, the electric motor with an electro-brake has been added to get rid of the steam engine, which is still present but disconnected.

The two arms were probably used to control the steam engine and the control valves, to turn or to unscrew.
This is also ingenious, as only one man can pull up the anchor and see what is happening at the hawse, see when the anchor is weighed, in which direction the chain goes, port or starboard, and so tell the bridge whether to put the helm to bd or td, opposite engine very slowly forward, in order to help the windlass and avoid scraping the underside of the hull or the bow with the chain.










I started to glue the elements, like the railing.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

A unique setup for the windlass! The lifelines came out nicely with the small tabs at the base to provide a secure attachment. This system proved OK for the individual stanchions used on the LSM.

Nice going! Tom

Thank Tom.

Some good progress on the windlass, but there are still details to add. It's still very time consuming to draw.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Nice work on the gears, those look like they might actually mesh!