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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:14 pm 
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Paul:

Yes there are some good winch photos taken on LST 325, including a sequence of lowering a boat. HNSA has a BOGP of a LST 525 Class which shows the location of the winches and how the cables were run. Somewhere (Cann'a find em) I have some technical drawings of these winches. They used two drum spools side by side and the cables paid out simultaneously across the deck to a double sheave and ran each fore and aft to another sheave by the inboard bulkhead and up into the head of the rails to attach to the actual arms. I have seen photos of these cables running several inches above the deck, in the same manner as on the APA's. The Sphinx BOGP plans show the winches in about the same location as on the LST, under the bridge wings.

Attachment:
LST O1 deck.jpg
LST O1 deck.jpg [ 62.41 KiB | Viewed 222 times ]


A greasy stripe on the trousers six inches up was an insignia of the amphibious forces.

Cheers: Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:48 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:01 am
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Tom,

The patent for the W. F. Hickson boat winch is #3,081,067. It was owned by the Welin Davit and Boat Division of Continental Copper and Steel Industries, Inc. It has 11 drawings, including recommended rigging for the double arm trackway gravity davits. At the end of the document are references to earlier relevant patents.

The file isn't too large, but the forum won't allow me to attach a PDF or ZIP file.

It is easy to get a copy on the US Patent Office web site if you know the patent number. I got the patent number by searching the patents for "winch." It wasn't the only instance in all US patents where "winch" was used!!!

I got the name "double arm trackway gravity davit" from a US Navy bosun mate training manual. I have never been successful getting blueprints for them. I made the davits on my OK City model by guestimation from photographs.

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:21 am 
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The rather wordy Navy Nomenclature for the davits is typical, but useful as a description. This reminds me for the written Chinese name for "Chicken McNuggets". Using kanji for each word and having to have everybody memorize the new symbol, they generally ended up with a lengthy multi word description instead. 'Chicken bread, bla, black, bla". I had a friend in Shanghai order a Pizza to be delivered to us. In English it would have been 30 seconds, 12" Combo at so and so address. Instead it was a back and forth long winded description that went on for 5 minutes.

So far my patent search abilities aren't working too well, the internet was to sell me a hand winch for my boat trailer. I think I have seen these drawings before, it was what I used to construct the APA boat winches.

Using 3D printing I was able to improve on the APA ones considerably, the photos I was able to find taken on LST 325 were of use in providing detail, if only guesstimated size. The BOGP drawings show a winch size on the deck plans, but who knows how generic these are as representations.

Cheers: Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:25 pm 
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Hank provided me with the Winch PDF's. The cable layout was the same as used on the LST's. The motor/gear heads seem to be generally the same through the series, but the cases housing the drums vary a lot! The ARL winches appear to be located a few feet aft of the LST ones so I located according to the Sphinx drawings. The zig zag cables were routed from the winches to the bulkheads using sprue. Not the perfect material but hopefully it will look OK.

Currently working on some rail (lifeline) for the area

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:19 pm 
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Tom,

Same translation problems with Japanese. Take the English (Latin or romanji) word "transistor." In Japanese hiragana - a written alphabet based upon the phonetic spoken language - it comes out to something like "touransistora," or six phonemes (syllables). They usually just insert the romanji "TRANSISTOR" right into the line of hiragana characters, especially in technical documents.

But when spoken the Japanese phonemes are used, such as "touransistora sisutora," the name for teen-aged girls who carried around pocket transistor radios in the 1960s. Or "isu curema" (ice cream).

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:04 am 
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I spent maybe 20 times more time in China rather than Japan. One year alone I spent two months in Hong Kong. I suppose that literal word by word examination of our common expressions don’t make much sense. In China there has been discussion about adopting an alphabet system, but sticking with what they have preserves access to thousands of years of culture. It take about the first six years of school to memorize the 10,000 characters that is a functional minimum. No wonder they have better memories!


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:56 pm 
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On the O1 level, aft, below the bridge, I am beginning to add some printed rail. What this portends is that some painting will have to be done before I proceed much further. Something I avoid as I find airbrushing the acrylics I use and mix to be a PITA (not the animal group) vis a vis clogging and cleaning of the airbrush. Such projects appeal to the procrastinator in me, putting off such things as can be avoided. Doing the hull ribs was one, the hawse pipes another. The aft superstructure will be a layer cake, but with the Davits which go vertically with attachment to several decks I will have to attach them permanently, which leads the necessity to paint (ugh). Ha-Rumph...

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:49 am 
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Attachment:
ARL 12 Poseidon 2.jpg
ARL 12 Poseidon 2.jpg [ 277.99 KiB | Viewed 110 times ]


Yesterdays progress. Today I printed some prototype stockless anchors and fired up the big compressor, ran the hose upstairs to the studio and did some Err-Brush work. Painted some grey on the superstructure bulkheads and some of the equipment. Masking to do the decks in APA deck grey may be a further adventure.

For the hull red I may add a bit of darker tint to dull it from the rather bright color I used on the APA. Unresolved.

Hawse pipes, harrumph. I'll have to do those before proceeding too far.

Cheers: Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:33 am 
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Location: Mocksville, NC
Tom,

Your latest parts production is really turning out nice!! I was quite surprised at all the small parts that you've added at this point. The davits, kingposts, booms - all look really top notch!!! I'm sure the paint will only enhance what you've already done.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:59 pm 
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Thanks Hank!

I am pretty much using the same technique, going through all the photos I can find with small details and recreating the bits and pieces that I can identify. There are quite a few more items not yet mounted, gas bottle racks, Carley Floats etc. Much like the APA the bulkheads are adorned with "stuff" covering almost every square CM. Bare section? That just means incomplete research. Along the sides of the O1 Deck are numerous racks, some with Carley Floats on a slanted rack (for release) and also several racks for gasoline drums, also setup for quick release. All these items will have to wait till the deckhouse is attached. An interesting (to me) design element is that throughout the ship two rail lifelines are used? For the modeler this is easier. The LSM also had two rail lifelines.

The flying bridge (very pleasant station in the tropics) had a canvas sun cover. All the photos I have of Poseidon show this rigged so I will have to decide the most effective way to simulate this item. Perhaps soldered brass covered with tissue? Maybe (maybe) a printed item. As all the photos are in Monochrome I don't know the color but guessing dyed to match the ships paint scheme.

Cheers: Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:36 am 
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Today I painted the O1 deck in my "APA Deck Grey" . An exercise in "I Shouldda". Being impatient I had attached the 20 mm Orlikons . When masking the tubs this complicated the making a cocoon of masking tape and I managed on breaking the barrel off of one. Fortunately there was a spare. Then the tape was difficult to remove from some small vents after painting and I pulled them off the deck. Another "shoudd'a". So that's mostly done, a little further touchup needed. Good thing as I am down to just a little APA Deck Grey, Err brushing is a profligate consumer of paint. As I mix my own, making a new batch is time consuming as it is important to get a match. Preferably not undertaken in the midst of a project. The number 0 brush comes out to do the inside of the tubs and other touchups.

The Orlikons still need to have the receiver, mag and barrel painted in black. Better known in Hobbit world as "Orc a lons".

I did the Anchors, boy they look tiny (fit on a penny) but supposedly measure out to USN stockless specs. So to "Phinish" the hull for painting I have to do the Hawse pipes. A good reason to build a kit! I have to figure the size of the anchor chain but might try printing in two separate objects, a full link with stud and a split link to attach the two solid links This is the method Song has successfully used to carve his wood links and I less successfully did in styrene for the APA. Maybe it will work?

Stay tuned!

Regards: Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:48 am 
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Location: Mocksville, NC
Tom,

Yes, the "shoulda" dept. is open for business!!! We all do/have done those sorts of exercises where in the rush to get something done a less practical solution is taken and results in chaos of sorts. Wow, just like current White House policies - who'd a thunk, right??? :huh: At least the modeler miscues are minor in comparison.

I know with cold weather at hand, you'll find the time to do your parts with precision - and print a few spares at the same time :thumbs_up_1: .

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:22 pm 
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Folks:

Slow progress, designed and printing some Hawse pipes plus a spare set of anchors. Thinking about how to do the little bit of chain I need. Two possibilities here, to try to print the chain, which can be sometimes designed, sometimes not successfully printed with the links overlapping but theoretically not joined. Another possibility is to bring a set of stud links and a set of link halves to join. Song used this system in his carving wooden links. Very short amount of chain needed.

The drawings of the anchor handling equipment sparse and so far no photos. Placement of stoppers, pelican hooks etc so far to be guesstimated.

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:09 am 
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
The Floating Drydock used to offer several sizes of 3D printed stud link chain. I have some of it here and it is pretty good.

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: ARL 12 USS Poseidon
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:47 am 
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Phil:

Yes, I remember that stuff, Hank used some of it on his New Jersey. For some reason it's no longer available. I have with occasional success printed chain before, but with the SLA printing they tend to merge. I have some printing experimentally right now. One set of the chain in one piece, hopefully flexible, and the other experiment is individual stud lengths and half links which can be joined to interfill the link between. The chain I am printing is fairly thin in hopes that it will remain separate links and stay flexible. As often happens, some iteration might be necessary.

The chain is drying before curing but looks good so far. Depending, I may try to thicken the wings by small amounts and see where the limit is. I have a chart showing the sizes and dimension (and weight) of USN Stockless Anchors. Do you know of a chart showing what size chain should be used with these anchors?

Cheers: Tom


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