The Ship Model Forum

I think I found the appropriate charts for anchor weights vrs chain link size. There is also an engineering formula to calculate from the ships characteristics the appropriate anchor mass.

https://dieselship.com/marine-technical ... formation/

Tom

Nice printing for the chain and anchors.

I have to try in 1:200..

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Pascal:

Perhaps your more advanced equipment and resin combo will be very successful at this. With my equipment I can print a smaller chain than 2 mm link width, but at that point it becomes less satisfactory with sometimes fused or weak links. A 2mm chain should have an approximately .5 mm wire diameter which is generally satisfactory, but the clearances between links become quite small.

According to my calculations the common 35,000 lb anchor used by Cruisers, Battleships and Carriers by USN during WWII would use a chain with a 95 mm wire diameter which results in a 15.27" link width, or in 1:192, 2.1 mm. As I can generally print this size I will probably replace the "jewelry" chain that Alaska and Missouri currently sport. Due to the small platen on my printer to get a longer continuous chain I have to double it back and forth. Placing the links to make the reverse is a bit tedious but seems to work OK.

Interestingly the wildcats and chain must mesh closely. Chain of a equivalent strength comes in slightly different sizes and once a ship has decided on a particular grade of chain she must stay with that type of chain to mesh with the "cable lifter " (Wildcat).

The ARL has two bow anchors whereas LST's generally had one. I presume in the case of the LST it was to reduce bow weight and draft for optimal beaching.

Tom

I'm hoping to print smaller chains maybe with my new Anycubic photon Ultra printer which is on pre-order and due to arrive in January 2022. This is confirmed. This is the first DLP printer in this very low price with a Texas Instrument module.

This kind of part should print much better, as there is almost no stray uv diffusion. So the parts have much sharper edges. The chain links in this case should stick together less.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... ra?lang=Us

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Pascal:

An interesting piece of machinery! It will be useful to find out how the actual performance is for ship model construction. Certainly increased acutance would be possible with the use of Laser beams. Any indications of how the printing speeds will compare?

I just printed some 1.6 mm chain which came out well except for single link. Of course a chain... But i did get some perfect 100 mm lengths of the small chain. The 2.1 mm chain comes out perfect. I think for the small chain I'll have to go back and carefully examine the supports for every link. It is convenient that these chains pull off the supports like a zipper.

Why am I messing with the chains since I have already done the ARL? It's a useful technique to have in the pocket and some past models could use upgraded anchor chain.

Tom

Success can be in the details. Going through a long set of small linked chains and carefully setting the supports for the 1.6 mm chain resulted in a perfect chain. With careful work maybe I can go smaller? The 2.1 mm seems to be right sized for my "Battleships" in 1:192 and maybe for 1:120 sized mid sized ships.

The 1.6 mm or smaller OK for Chain stoppers etc but I need to make the accompanying gear. With my current set, guessing perhaps 1.3 mm chain might be limit?

Tom

Amazingly the 1.3 mm stud link chain printed well with careful hand arrangement of the supports (lots of them). I counted 17 links/inch.

The ne pen ultimate of bad eye phone photos. But it is pretty dinky and remains sharp and flexible!

Tom

_________________
Amen dico tibi, hodie mecum eris in paradiso (Lk 23,43).

Hi Tom,

Now you have my curiosity up! Did you set up the 3d print with each link having an individual support? I have a printer and might be interested in going after some scale chain so I'm really interested in your set-up.

_________________
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret


Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46

Tom,

Well, as we've both found out, there is a limit to how small an individual link can be printed where it's separate - and at 1/144 scale an anchor chain for a FLETCHER class isn't one of them!!! I may try again with the T-3 development work but the last run of the STODDARD chains will work fine as is.

Bruce (not to steal Tom's thread) -
But, YES! - each link needs to be supported - I do the vertical links with a single centered support from the bottom and on the horizontal links I use a single support centered on each side of the link. Takes a lot of time, but you need to have each link self supported as it's an entity unto itself (theoretically, that is ).

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

It's a bit like our current justice system, "Trial and Error"....

The MK1 Design method for chain ( Here Titanic ) :

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

I had good luck with tall (3 mm) thin supports and the chain could be nicely pulled off of them like a zipper. So far with my equipment 1.4 mm link height has been a limit for a fully flexible chain. 1.2 mm can come off the supports OK but tends to fuse slightly when curing. It can be bent easily, but isn't limp. I think that a more thorough washing in Alcohol and a minor curing might work better. Possibly it could be placed on the model uncured and then cured in place?

The Titanic was a large ship and would have a fairly large chain size? For a US Battleship chain in 1:200 that would work out to a link height of about 1.94 mm, a very doable size. I am going to replace the Chains on the 1:192 Missouri and Alaska with a 2 mm chain.

Cheers: Tom

Interesting, I have a Sims DD on the building board....may have to try printing the chain so its closer to scale than the jewelry chain I was planning to use.

thanks for the information.

_________________
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret


Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46

Bruce:

You 1:144 project should be interesting. Hank Strub will be trying some printed chain on his 1:144 Stoddard. Good luck with your project, glad to see some lesser modeled destroyers!

Cheers: Tom

Under the 'Wah hail" category, I have had some difficulty with printed booms curving when curing. Plan B has been to hollow them out and insert a thin wooden dowel. Seems to work so far, but I did discover that the interior of the boom retains quite a bit of liquid resin. The dowel can be used to swamp this out, perhaps that helps as well.

I printed some improved rafts with some supplies and paddles inside. Still examining photos, but unlike some LST's and ARL's, Poseidon appears to have had it's Carley floats on angled racks off of the O1 level such that cutting the lashing would release them into the sea easily. It is not currently crystal clear how many rafts she had, I think four, but it could be five or six. Though I have some original photographs taken during the war, they are mostly pretty small and will take magnified inspection.

The port side A Frame derrick may be somewhat complicated. Size wise it's shown on the Sphinx drawings But has some complications of rigging. Fortunately I do have a photo from the main deck showing the base pivots. What I don't understand as yet as the frame is over centered inboard when stowed, how do they get it outboard? The could heel the ship but that seems an overly complex method. There are two large winches, one to position the A Frame, the other one to lift whatever is on the end.

Tom

Thanks for the information Tom.

I briefly considered creating a WIP page for the Sims class, but as slow as I model it would probably keep slipping to page 3 between updates!

Perhaps I'll post some progress pictures one of these days without the dedicated WIP.

_________________
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret


Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46

Bruce:

I am sending Hank Strub some 1.4 mm chain for his Stoddard (1:144), guess we will see how that looks on his ship. I have printed some 1.2 mm chain, but it's not fully flexible, though it could be bent around the wildcat to look OK. He printed some anchors for his project from a file I sent him and he modified slightly for correct size, they look pretty good, the 3D surface is irregular enough that they look like castings! I am going to use the small chain for chain stoppers and whatnot which can be straight.

I presume you have looked in on Willie's 1:144 McGowan, sold to the Spanish Navy. She has a little fame as one of the destroyers making a night torpedo run in against the Japanese Battleships at Surigao Strait.

Good luck on your project!

Tom

Bruce:

As to the chain, each link has a fine support, the platform function in Chitubox will put most of those in, but you have to go back and delete any that are too close to the vertical links. Often it does not put a support on the horizontal links. Each horizontal link must have a support to remain free of the other in printing. I alternate the link supports side to side, not sure if this is necessary. Happily the chain pulls off the supports like a zipper. The longest 2 mm chain I have printed is about 14"!

You will find that some experimentation is necessary to come out with a flexible chain, but it's a fun exercise.

Good luck! Tom

Very small progress today. I printed some pelican hook assemblies and applied two to the anchor chain on the ARL. A funny ship with super short chain runs around the wildcat so not much opportunity to show off the pretty delicate chains such as on a Battleship model. Maybe you wouldn't even notice them! I am setting aside a bunch of small parts, rafts, racks, and whatnot to be airbrushed. Current interpretation is there are six Carley Floats mounted on inclined racks. Some ARL's utilized the vertical raft racks on the main deck rail, as on the LSM's. As far as I can tell, Poseidon didn't have these. Whether or not this was a shipyard decision or a preference of Captain Flanigan, I can't be sure, but he was Captain from the commissioning as LST and through conversion and Pacific voyages during the war. It would appear that commissioning Captains have considerable leeway as exemplified by Iowa and Alaska modifications.

I began working on the design for the A Frame derrick. The Photo take from the main deck at it's base (in a storm) is alluding me at the moment but it can't have gone far. I still have no idea how that moved over center outboard to lower. In building a model. it's good to have a workable rig. There were a couple of stout cables that took the strain when the Derrick was fully extended that extended from the top of the derrick, across the ship to large padeyes. I have seen these rigged and not rigged. I could print these with the swedged eyes on each end and relaxed awarthsips on the O1 level. A thin cable could be printed with the basic curve, but thin, would retain sufficient flexibility.

Cheers: Tom