The Ship Model Forum

Wikipedia is not a primary source. But of course there was just one on the APA as well. These could be controlled by a MK 51, as could even the dual mounts on the Fast BB's. The mechanism in the MK 51 use rate over rate tracking, it's internal gyros calculating the angular change and rate of change to estimate the lead required. With the adoption of the VT Fuse this was frequently enough. The MK 51 relied on the operator making a smooth tracking of the target and the lead estimation was only as good as the smoothness of the tracking. If good range information was available elevation output would be enhanced with TOF also included in the calculation. Considering that all of this was mostly done with cams and levers and very little in the way of what we think of as electronics today is really very clever!

The quick firing 3" 50 dual mounts carried widely postwar were directed by the much more sophisticated units capable of engaging faster aircraft than the MK 37, which was limited to maybe 450 knots with it's own radar ranging system. Wartime Alaska carried several (4) MK 52 units which incorporated radar units improving accuracy, especially at night or ini poor visibility.

All this stuff is described in gory detail in NAVPERS 10798-A

Wow-such a great amount of information in this group, as well as the skills to translate that info to scale modeling. Really cool to follow.

As a somewhat humorous aside, by the 1980s the larger armament on the remaining USN T-3s (CANISTEO and CALOOSAHATCHEE) was down to two 3"50s, with Mk1 Mod 0 eyeball fire control. We could still put holes in the water though!

John - Thanks - we try!! Research is sometimes more rewarding than the construction! I do appreciate your update on the T-3s - modern version.

I'll also echo Tom's comment re. Wikipedia - NOT reliable source to quote - I trust reference sources that can't be tampered with by the general public, etc.

My attempts (2 trys) finally paid off on printing the 5" gun tub directly on the printing platen w/o supports. Yesterday's efforts were nil due to not realizing that the tub was actually not on the plate, but somewhere above. What printed was a Dali-esk shape that got deep 6'd. Today I did the orientation a bit differently, aligning the part from the side view and thus getting it to sit on the platen, not above it. Printed very well and after painting and getting the mount installed, I'll post photos - maybe tomorrow.

My sounding booms also printed today (oriented flat) as they didn't yesterday (@ 45 deg.). So, still a trial & error type of production of parts. Learning curve intact!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

I guess I forgot to mention the small detail in that you have to set the elevation of the item to zero, otherwise it is sitting in mid air without supports. All's well that ends!

Cheers: Tom

Hank,

What slicer are you using?

In Chitubox the "Move" function has a "Put on the plate" option.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

For Chitubox I believe either option is available.

Phil/Tom:
Chitubox is the slicer. BUT...I thought that function "Put on the Plate" would do exactly that. It does NOT appear to do anything. I just tried it out on a part that is perfectly flat, and it didn't do anything.

The gun tub has an angled floor, so is not oriented "flat" from side view - so, in this case I had to rotate it in order to put it on the platen and that worked. I have not found a "help" tab or any manual for Chitubox to explain any/all functions or commands.

Tom - it was my fault on the orientation angle - most parts we draw where they come up oriented flat - this one, due to the angled floor, did not. My bad!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

OK, so here are a couple photos of the 5" gun tub that I printed flat on the printer plate without any supports:

The first edition tub that was printed using supports had a very uneven underside which I sanded flat. This one would require no cleanup at all. Here is the tub with the mount, towing hook pad in place and painted:

I haven't figured out what caused the stridations on the tub walls, but I will sand, apply some putty, resand & repaint if I decide to actually use this tub instead of my 1st version. I'm now going to revise the sounding booms slightly and then reprint in a straight up orientation as the last version had flat areas due to printing flat.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Due to inclimate weather, I stayed inside today and redrew the T-3 Pilot House - still working on it, but have the basics:

And, the Pilot House proper, still a work in progress:

I've begun the stanchions/handrails on the P.H. Top which aren't shown in this picture.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Today I finished work on the Pilot House and now have it ready to print -

This part will just barely fit (widthwise) on the printer platen. It will take 3+ hours and I may get around to it tomorrow. I've been working on the next level down which is the Navigation Bridge Deck & Upper Bridge Superstructure (below). The Nav. Bridge Deck also contains (2) 40mm gun tubs which I've now got the basic tub & accessories ready to be finalized - I added a copy of the nav. bridge deck to the file so that I can position the tub correctly and then slice the bottom of the tub at the correct camber of the deck. Here's a shot of the deck and deck house below - these two items will need to be cut in half to print and once all the details, etc. are in place, I'll do that. Then add alignment tabs on each half for correct positioning when assembling the parts. There's more to this 3D stuff than meets the eye

Here's the Nav. Bridge & House at present -


In spite of having a fresh jug of Rapid Black resin, I may switch that out for Model Gray and see how much detail I get using that resin instead. Tom has mentioned to me that he has not adjusted any of his printer settings when he changes his resin - so, I'm going to leave my settings as they are currently and see what happens.

With winter weather at hand, I'm not predisposed to having to actually do anything at the moment except keep the driveway & sidewalks cleaned off!!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Didn't make it out to the shop today - too cold even with the Whiner heat turned on. So, I stayed in and got the Nav. Bridge level 40mm gun tubs finalized and print files created. I only needed to design one and then in Chitubox, mirror that part and have an identical one for the opposite side of the deck. Here's what this tub and lower empty shell support area look like:


I've also been working one level below (Upper Bridge Deck) and slowly getting it drawn up; haven't gotten to a point yet where a picture would be useful.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

Tub looks good. For Poseidon I had tubs for and aft for the Quad Bofors. The floor may or may not cause a waist to form on the exterior wall due to shrinkage. I had this issue and made separate floors which could be inserted from below against a very small ledge.

In this case I used my stencil cutter to make the floor, but it could be printed.

Tom

Thanks, Tom!!! Yes, I think we've discussed the waist shrinkage situation - I'll print one set and see how they turn out. Perhaps it's necessary to remember to add a circular sq. lip under the deck in a situation like this and make it wide enough to keep that shrinkage from occurring. I've had a couple items print with that occurrence so it's worth looking into.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

The camber of the deck where the tubs are located is merely a simple and not a compound curve? In that case add the tubs to the deck and set edge on the the deck, normal to the camber and make a "cut" separating the tubs from the deck. If it is compound, again add the tubs to the deck and highlight an edge of the deck and using the pull tool, cut the deck out from underneath the tubs. BTW you only need to do this with one tub.

Good luck! Tom

The Fwd. 3"/50 gun tubs & Mk. 51 FCD/tub came out fairly well. I may do some further design modifications to the undersides and reprint, but at this point the unit is painted & assembled -


I have the Nav. Bridge level 40mm gun tubs printed but not yet removed and cleaned up/painted. They took a 2nd printing after revising the design and also a minor overhaul of the printer. The pilot house is proving to be a bit difficult - I've now split it into two main parts with additional parts (handrails/support posts) printing separate. Once again, this 3D stuff is a work in progress - too many variables to be consistent in outcome.

I've also begun (at Tom's suggestion) bringing in the vat, resin, & printing plate at night as the temps in the shop are rather cold.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

The recycle bins came out really nice! Each bag carefully sorted, then weighted with a 3" shell before being tossed overboard?

Looking forward to your progress on the midships superstructure, guessing a challenge! Good work so far!

Cheers: Tom

After printing most of the parts for the forward superstructure, I've been assembling and in the process, I realized that some serious redesign was in order. The pilot house was too long by about 1/4" so that got redesigned and I managed to add some refinements to the design along the way, including a depression for accurate placement of the Mk. 52 FC Director tub as well as placement holes for various deck equipment. I also corrected the deck camber of this part and will follow thru with each deck & deckhouse located below to ensure a proper fit. I'm also redesigning the Navigation Bridge Deck & Upper Bridge Deck to be one unit with the adjacent superstructure below each of those decks instead of separate parts. These will need to be then sectioned into printable parts (each side + middle) but will include the deck above with the deckhouse below. I will follow this plan for the remaining superstructure down to the main deck level. Here are some design pix:

That will sit above the Nav Bridge Deck which I've also got close to being completed:

In the meantime, other work includes thickening up the tub walls of both the sky lookout tubs and the Mk. 51 FC director tubs - they were too thin and had gaps in the printed editions. These are now reprinted and painted and ready for their details to be added. I've also reprinted the Pilot House RADAR room extension after doing a bit of redesign on it, as well:

This will be attached to open (after) end of the Pilot House prior to located the completed unit to the Upper Nav Bridge Deck. It came out really well from the printer and I'm in the process of painting. Of course, I may need to go and inventory small deck gear to make sure I have enough for a 2nd version of the pilot house as the 1st edition has all those parts on it and will probably be sacrificed due to them not surviving removal. If not, I will do a loaded print run of various parts.

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank: It's never simple is it! Persistence is our most important product!

Cheers: Tom

Tom,

Totally, a work in progress!!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Recently, I've been working on creating some hull sections beginning with the amidships point in the hull and working forward. I'm designing these sections within the physical limits of my printer, so these turn out to be 50mm max in length. I only need to design the stbd side and then mirror it for printing the port side:

when joined together you get this as a result:

At this point I've printed 6 of these parts and am waiting for more resin (they each consume quite a bit of material!). I've also decided to see if printing directly on the printing platen will produce a more flat center face than using the normal "supported" method of setting up a print file. This way the part is directly printed on the plate as shown in this picture:

This is only a test part and is not intended for use on the actual model. As it is, most of these parts (this one included) will take over 8 hrs to print due to height. So, my goal is to eliminate, if possible, the normal "raft" and support piers that normally are created during the printing process and shorten somewhat the overall printing time. In addition, I noticed some internal bulging of the hull sides and while it is not affecting the appearance of the part, I haven't figured out why it's occurring. Tom F. mentioned to me it's possible that I need another set of "X" bracing internally, rotated 45 deg. (vert/horiz.) and I may add that to this test section before I run a print. So, right now I have 3 sections (P/S) printed and have a new pkg. of CA glue & accelerator on hand to assemble these parts. Externally they all printed well and will form the nucleus of the T-3 hull as it develops. The sections that will be printed AFT of amidships will be the same in dimension as the amidship part - this doesn't change for possibly 5-6 more sections going aft. Then the hull begins to narrow and take a different curvature. I've also designed into the side the upper/lower waterline which is a 0.50mm thick half round and that has printed well:


So, with Spring at hand I suspect that shop & computer design time will somewhat lessen with yard projects already on the Admiral's punch list.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48