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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:37 pm 
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A request from a Swiss friend.

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A Guppy kiosk conversion ( Porthmouth Sail version ) for a Gato Class submarine to represent the USS Torsk 423 with a 1:72 Gato Class Revell hull. I have to release the big sonar under the hull also.

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I found a lot of drawings on this excellent Gato Class website:

http://www.gatosubs.com/mkptsail72draw.htm

Unfortunately they are not very accurate, see picture, but they did help me a bit to start my 3D drawing.

Luckily, you can find a lot of pictures of the USS Torsk in a dry dock during an interview and docked at the museum, especially on Flickr with HD pictures of individuals.

This submarine kiosk looks simple in terms of shape, but it's quite the opposite.

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First sketchs:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:01 pm 
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Pascal:

Another interesting project. One wonders why the GUPPY program which greatly extended the range and underwater speed of the "Fleet Type" wasn't adopted much earlier. For the most part new technology wasn't involved. I remember the very similar USS Bugara (SS 331) undergoing sound tests at the Dabob Bay sound range on Hood Canal. The boats on battery power could be very quiet at slow speed. A Marine Scout Sniper friend had suggested without revealing details that she was used for emplacing clandestine teams.

The photos of Torsk high and dry reveal that most of the limber holes along the sides of the built up main deck have been filled in. These were initially in great number to allow a quicker emergency dive, not of great importance by the time the GUPPY's were re constructed. This would have also cut down submerged drag.

Cheers! Tom


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:10 pm 
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Tks Tom!

Progress of the day::

Rivets and welding cords. Shelter kiosk glaces.

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


Last edited by Iceman 29 on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:34 pm 
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Pascal:

Very nice conversion piece! I know things don't "translate" very well sometimes, especially marine terms. The USN term for this streamlined superstructure is "Sail". Not a very literal nomenclature!
Attachment:
Torsk.jpg
Torsk.jpg [ 230.89 KiB | Viewed 1417 times ]


Torsk, a "fleet Snorkel" boat is shown below. She retained the coning tower for navigation and periscope observation at the base of the sail. Aft of the periscopes is the snorkel apparatus.

Illustration from Norman Friedman's "US Submarines since 1945".


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:34 am 
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Now that could be an interesting conversion.

Any plans to simulate oil-canning with the 3D render and translate it to print form?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:42 pm 
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I incorrectly suggested that Torsk was part of the post war Guppy program, in fact she was a "Fleet Snorkel" and not a Guppy. The Fleet Snorkel boats were a fairly minimal conversion with underwater speed considerably enhanced by exterior cleanup. Torsk and several others retained the base for the 5" 25 deck gun aft of the sail, however none in the long run retained the mount for long.

The Guppy boats were a very extensive reconstruction. The most obvious distinguishing external characteristic was the Guppy's had a rounded prow and the Fleet Snorkels retained the original raked prow.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:39 am 
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Interesting conversion indeed, Pascal!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:34 am 
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Tks Maarten.

It's a Fleet.Type Snorkel variation 2 ( Porthmouth Sail version ) conversion indeed.

https://naval-encyclopedia.com/cold-war ... arines.php
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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:33 pm 
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That is a good summary of the different directions modification of the WWII USN Fleet Submarines went in. The GUPPY's used a new and improved battery (and more of them) to deliver the Greater underwater power. The speeds were slightly higher than the streamlined Snorklers. The snorkelers were equipped with the original high speed motors which required reduction gearing. The GUPPY direct drive slow speed motors were considered much quieter. Some GUPPY's had a 12-15' hull section added forward, not for extra batteries but to allow extra equipment to utilize new sonar and plotting equipment for use with the wire guided torpedoes. Even amongst the snorkelers there were a number of different sail configurations used. It was found advantageous for North Atlantic operations to move the bridge even higher as the low stepped bridge tended to be very wet. Even more so with the GUPPY's with their bobbed bow.

One thing found with both the GUPPY's and the Type XXI captured subs evaluated was that high speed maneuvering and depth control was tricky business. In a significant seaway, both types could make better speed underwater than the escorts could make on the surface. This would have been a strong tactical consideration had the Type XXI been employed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:37 pm 
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Resuming the 3D drawing on this project. :cool_2:

I made a lot of progress today on the riveting and various sheet metal plates, the welds and the navigation lights.

I'm already at 2150 pieces, with the rivets it goes up fast.

Fortunately the documentation is very good.

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:15 pm 
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Definitely a challenge for anyone who should undertake the task of rivet counting! Under the "if only's" perhaps a good oil canning 3D tool will come about!

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:36 pm 
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I don't think so Tom, but I would do some tests.

I still have a lot of stuff to add on the massif. Then I'll work on the the "bathtub" at the top, periscopes, radar, schnorkel, etc..

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There is no door on the port side, I will remove it. I've just mirrored the starboard side for now, there are some differences.

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:22 pm 
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I used to live and work in Baltimore's Inner Harbor and the Torsk has been part of the scenery for over 40 years. I'm building a model of another ship in Baltimore's Inner Harbor, maintained by Historic Ships Baltimore, the Constellation, so this thread caught my eye.

Is the model intended to be RC?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:07 am 
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JerryTodd wrote:

Is the model intended to be RC?


No Jerry, it’s for a static modèle..

Great project your Constellation, very Nice. :thumbs_up_1:

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:13 am 
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The progress of the day, especially on the port side.

I have some rivets to add, but I'll put them at the end of the drawing because the file has become obese and my Imac has a little trouble to follow. :')

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:02 pm 
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I tried oil-canning with a method I developed, not the one in the link above.

It's quite tedious because each recess has to be drawn one by one, here there are few, the settings must be careful, too many, not enough. :cool_2:

It has the advantage of not being repetitive in terms of shape.

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:28 pm 
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An improved version with the right number of "ribs"...

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:12 pm 
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Some additions and modifications to fit the reality on the port side.

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I actually separated the top of the sail from the bottom at the design level to lighten the struggling program.

I'm going to tackle the top of the sail very soon. Then the two drawings/files will be merged for printing.

I practice this way on my projects when it starts to drag.

Although it's a submarine of the same class, the layout of the accessories on the top of the sail is different but the naming and shape is good.

The thing with the fins is the Snorkel's exhaust outlet. The fresh air intake is just in front.

SS 376 Mapiro / TCG Pirireis (S-343)

In 1960, Mapiro was converted into a Fleet Snorkel submarine.

On 18 March 1960 she was transferred on loan as part of the military assistance programme to Turkey . The Turkish Navy renamed her TCG Pirireis (S-343), after Piri Reis (c. 1465-1554), an Ottoman admiral and cartographer.

She left San Francisco on 16 May 1960 for Istanbul via the Panama Canal, with her new Turkish crew. Pirireis arrived in Gölcük on 23 June 1960. She was commissioned into the Turkish Navy the next day.

The submarine was removed from the US Naval Registry and sold directly to Turkey on 1 August 1973; she was scrapped by the Turkish Navy in 1973.

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I've moved on a bit on the top of the sail this evening.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


Last edited by Iceman 29 on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:09 pm 
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Pascal:

Wonderful experimentation with the oil canning, another horrible possibility to further complicate the possibilities of modeling! Very good to explore additional new techniques. Some day I am going to have to teach myself a more advance 3D program.

I am guessing you use a translator? Kiosk would be the sort of term a translator program might come up with. For this sub we would call this the Sail. I use a translator in writing to my Russian friends and they use on in return. I se a few funny translation words, but it's pretty good. Not sure how mine is coming out on the Russian end.

Nice continuing progress!

Tom


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:54 am 
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Indeed Tom, I use DeepL, an excellent translator, if not the best because it is contextual, which is not the case with Google trad. It's easier for me because I just have to copy the text already written from the French forum. The sail of a submarine is called in French kiosque or massif.

The oil canning is indeed a challenge in 3D, but it is feasible, it would be easier on a relatively flat hull, this is not the case here.

Already, representing the hull sheets is not simple, both together will certainly be very complicated operations, you need of course a very powerful and recent computer with a lot of RAM. :cool_2:

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•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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