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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:40 pm 
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Location: Bretagne, France
wefalck wrote:
A question to the printing practicalities: on the 1/100 upright stern section I seem to see a lot of support structure over the flat deck - why is this necessary ?

Of course, it goes without saying, that the results are impressive :thumbs_up_1:



Tks Tom and Wefalck!

Good question!

This time I printed with the hull the openwork back platform, a kind of steel grating a test.

A lack of supports can be catastrophic, and there the waste of resin is important.

The supports allow the printing of the parts overhanging vertically. In relation to the image below, you should know that the printing starts at the bottom of the image and then shows gradually by very thin layer, here 50 microns, until the top of the part.

The first layers between 3 and 6, are overexposed in UV 10 times longer so that this base is glued solidly to the plate of the tray, because each time a layer is applied, an effort will be applied to this base glued. Each time a layer is applied, the newly created layer has to be peeled off the bottom of the transparent resin tray, which requires effort.

It is not advisable to print a part directly on the plate, we always place supports underneath to avoid these famous 3 to 6 layers of excess gluing thickness. In some cases it can be wise, depending on the part in question, but it is rather rare.

It happens very often that a part of a part is overhanging or parallel to the plate like some edges of the part, so if this overhang has no support fixed to the plate, it may not print as desired, but be deformed, because it has no physical relationship with the plate, it can last several tens of layers, which will make a beautiful undesired :censored_2: and put the part in the scrap or not print at all and produce waste in the liquid resin, which will have to be filtered later.

So you need vertical continuity of the part, to put it simply, the supports temporarily solve this problem.

A typical overhang on a part:

Image

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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NukeMM
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 4:30 am 
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Wow! I feel like Rip Vanwinkle and been asleep for a year. I've been missing out on the progress of this thread.

I didn't know you were intending some 1/350 models. I thought you were going big with 1/72 or 1/96.

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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:11 am 
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It's 1:100. :thumbs_up_1:

3D printing is progressing.

Small parts and large parts. There are still some to be printed, including the railings, fire barrel etc..

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:30 pm 
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Other printed elements:

The one-piece rail, do not break when handling..!

Image

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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BB62vet
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:42 am 
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Pascal,
Looks like we're on the same page when it comes to storage of parts - those divided boxes really come in handy!

Also, I like your railings - I'm just about to get the printer going to print the 3rd edition of my pilot house railings as the other editions were insufficient in size to print correctly. Hopefully, this will be a "keeper" and I'll be able to use them with the 2nd edition pilot house which is curing right now. I also noticed that your tugboat pilot house deck has those faint stridations across it - mine does also - so, I don't feel so bad about it as simple fine sanding should remove those marks and leave a good surface for painting. My last edition of the railings didn't fare so well due to the supports being separate and not a continuous raft. This time I made sure that the raft was one continuous element to be able to remove as one piece thus eliminating the chance of tearing the railing apart.

Your boat looks really good - in both scales - excellent job!!

Hank

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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:12 pm 
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Hello Hank,

I bought 15 boxes like that at least, at around 4 euros each, 36 compartments ago. Very practical.

For the stripes I sanded a little, but I leave some because some places are difficult to sand, too bad. It disappears a little once painted.

For the railing, it remains delicate, especially with the pieces of supports, I removed it now once glued on the deck, with my Dremel and a small conical pink sanding stone turning at 16000 rpm, it takes a little bit of fingering to not damage anything! But it works very well with practice.

Advances in painting with the LifeColor panoply.

I will not say again all the bad things I think about this brand of acrylic paint... The only advantage is the range.

So the hull is painted in US Navy 5-S Sea blue and the superstructures in 5-H Haze grey.

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We can see that the Tugboat Nokomis was not yet painted in 5-O, while Hoga was. This confirms a transition period of mesure Ship-2,

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The Hoga is probably painted in 5-O, hull and superstructure the same day.

The Nokomis is painted in the same way when the Hornet returns from the Coral Sea, you can see it on this picture.

Hornet CV-8 and Nokomis.
At Pearl Harbor, May 26, 1942, just after the Battle of the Coral Sea and just before the Battle of Midway. The harbor tug Nokomis (YT-142) is underway alongside her.
Image

The USS Yorktown (CV-5 arrives at Pearl Harbor after the Battle of the Coral Sea on May 27, 1942, with her crew parading in white on the flight deck. After repairs, she departed on May 30 to participate in the Battle of Midway. The tug Hoga (YT-146) is in the center foreground.
Image

USS Arizona (BB-39), and Hoga presumably, can be recognized by her mast.
Image

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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NukeMM
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:29 pm 
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Excellent!

You are so, lucky with having so, many wonderful photographs of this tug.

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(Formerly Back-Aft Models)

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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:48 pm 
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Indeed Carl, well for the Nokomis there is much less months than for Tug Hoga on December 7, 1941.

It seems that the Nokomis is between two measures Ship-2 at the time of the attack of Pearl Habor. which makes complicated to determine its livery at that time.

Jeff Sharp wrote:
Nokomis and Hoga were sisterships of the Woban Class. When both were commissioned at the end of 1940 into 1941, they were painted in what was typical for service vessels at the time. Buff over Black. Their superstructures were painted Buff and the hulls were painted Black.
Here is a color picture of another sister, USS Wenonah, at San Diego 1941 wearing the same Buff over Black.
Image

Sometime before September 1941 Hoga painted out of this scheme but Nokomis did not. This shot shows Hoga at her normal berth in the Navy Yard on Sept. 26, 1941.
Image
This tells me that she was painted into 5-D. At least her superstructure was. It's possible that her hull remained black but that is only speculation on my part based on tonal differences I see in some photos of her during the attack. Maybe the tonal difference is just what you get when you paint 5-D over Buff as opposed to over Black.
Image
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I don't see any evidence of Hoga's pole mast wearing 5-L to conform to MS-1 camouflage. Maybe the 5-L is covered with smokestack soot.
Other service vessels during the attack also still wore the Buff over Black including USS Osceola, YO-23 and YW-16. The two garbage lighters, YG-17 and YG-21( YG-21 can be seen behind USS Hoga in the above photo putting out fires on USS Arizona) have me scratching my head a little bit! Logic would say that they were also painted in Buff over Black but their upper works photograph VERY light compared to the others mentioned. Here are the two of them together putting out fires on USS West Virginia. YG-17 on the left and YG-21 on the right. I always assumed they wore White but I'm not so sure!
Image

After a little while, YG-21 left and USS Hoga took her spot next to YG-17. Here is a colorized still of them together.
Image

YG-17
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YG-21
Image

YO-23
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YW-16
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USS Osceola behind USS Sunnadin
Image

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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Fliger747
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:59 pm 
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I would offer the opinion that the top photos been colorized. Though generally effort was made to recreate the original colors. Sometimes colorization might recreate the original colors better than the photography of the period. My experience with the lead based paints of the era was they were pretty opaque so I don't know if the under color would make any difference?

As always good and interesting research for these small vessels, a witness to most of the historic ships of the time.

Regards: Tom


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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:37 pm 
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I think Jeff's "picture" is a capture from a movie. It is known that at that time rare film was made in color, but very few with this technology was born.

I did a little research on this tug that I know, often encountered in my research on the internet, because of the same class.

We can see that in 1943 in San Diego, far from the fighting, YT-148 had kept its buff on black livery. Many photos attest it.
I say to myself that in a port of avant garde like Pearl harbor the rules were stricter in 1941 before the attack, pure speculation...

1943. Interesting picture. Tug and ship..

Under tow in San Diego Harbor on 14 June 1943 shortly after completion by her builder, Concrete Ship Constructors.
The tug to starboard is probably Wenonah (YT-148, later YTB-148). The stern of Pocahontas (YT-266, later YTB-266) is barely visible to port beyond the barge's rudder.

Photo No. 19-N-47838
Source: Arthur D. Baker III
Image

Under tow in San Diego Harbor on 12 March 1943 shortly after completion by her builder, Concrete Ship Constructors.
The tugs are probably Wenonah (YT-148, later YTB-148) on the left and YMT-3 (later YTL-88) and a sister (either YMT-1 or YMT-12) on the right.

Photo No. 19-N-42130
Source: Arthur D. Baker III
Image

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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Fliger747
PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:08 pm 
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The photo that I posted earlier in my Poseidon thread of Woban itself in San Diego, alongside Poseidon was, all in Navy Grays. That was early 1946, as far as I know. Dates of painting always items of some interest as it's an important part of our model display. My memory is that there have been knock down drag out battles amongst the paint police on the colors of various Battleships at Pearl Harbor.

The Technicolor processes was available at the time, but generally only for big and expensive productions. Three separate black and white film strips were exposed, one for each primary color.

Cheers: Tom


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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:51 pm 
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Tks Tom, I don't see this picture.

The paint advances, it starts to take shape.

Antifouling US Navy AK 5026.
Lifecolors: Hull 5-S Sea Blue, Deck blue 20-B, 5-H Haze grey for the superstructures.
Anthracite Revell N°9.

Directive of 31 July 1941, implemented from September.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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Fliger747
PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:05 pm 
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Pascal:

The painting looks very convincing, especially the door and window frames in the pilot house. Crispness of the hull is most excellent as well, something that would be difficult to achieve by traditional methods.

Cheers: Tom


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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:47 am 
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Tks Tom, painting is always... Image

Paintings and collages of details parts, of the lifeboat (not finished) mainly on starboard. I have some touching up to do.

Image

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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NukeMM
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:41 pm 
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He's a Hansome Boy!

(Or is it "She's Pretty Lady"?) :worship_1:

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Fliger747
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:40 pm 
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Maybe a little "Pushy"?


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NukeMM
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:45 pm 
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I was thinking "Tuggy".

Fliger747 wrote:
Maybe a little "Pushy"?

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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:12 pm 
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Back after a few days of vacation on the island of Ré (France).

https://www.holidays-iledere.co.uk/

The advancements; paint, rigging, acetate windows, propeller, remaining fire hoses to be installed, life buoys, 2 storage lockers aft of the bridge, hawsers/trailers on deck (Ordered from Occre).. etc.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


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Fliger747
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:50 pm 
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She looks especially good in the B&W of the era!

Tom


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Iceman 29
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:47 am 
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Thanks Tom! :thumbs_up_1:

I used this excellent Vallejo wood set for the Tug Pudding, even though it's not wood, I have to say it's not bad and will help me for my next wooden ship decks:

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product ... cts-71187/

71.187
Old and new wood effects

Set with step-by-step Scratchmod, for creating new and old wood effects in silver-gray. The wood colors can be used for boxes and crates as well as for tool handles, etc. The old wood colors will help reproduce much older, weathered wood.

Contents:
8 x 17 ml./0.57 fl.oz. Aerial Model

70.614 IDF Israeli sand gray 61-73
71.027 Light brown
71.032 Golden brown
71.075 Ivory
71.077 Wood
71.131 Concrete
71.141 IDF Sand gray 73
74.517 Dark Gray

Thanks to the advice of "Thimarie" who used it for one of his mounts that I had read recently, it tempted me to try it, it's exactly the look I'm looking for for my teak decks or other rot-proof woods:

https://www.laroyale-modelisme.net/t223 ... 35-italeri

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I took some pictures at the museum in La Rochelle the other day to have a good reference for my next projects.

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_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ


Last edited by Iceman 29 on Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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