The Ship Model Forum

Did you find any detailed drawings of the cargo winches? I'm trying to scratchbuild some in /35th for a Liberty ship and presume they would be similar.

Francis:

No I did not find any detailed drawings of the particular winches to this ship. I have a (low rez) copy of the movie "Away All Boats" which was filmed aboard and actual APA more or less in her WWII configuration except for the paint scheme (post war). From that I was able to take screen shots and produce a reasonable facsimile. Good enough for 1:120, in your scale much more info would be necessary! I don't know if the very dissimilar Liberty Ships used the same winches. One (Jeremiah O'Bran) resides pier side in San Fransisco. I was aboard a long time ago and have no idea what winches she uses. Good Luck!

Hank! Thanks, it's an ongoing task. Turns out this is a much more complex task than a mere "warship".

On Francis' question re. winches - you can't A-S-S-U-M-E anything in regards to deck equipment, esp. winches. There were various manufacturers of winches and different models/sizes/classes for each type of ship and the particular job the winch was designed to do. Most of these companies are long out of business or have been gobbled up in mergers where it's almost impossible to find any information regarding those 1940's era winches.

I spent several hours on board WISCONSIN in Sept. 2019 just photographing and trying to make notes of winches mfg'rs, models, ser. or parts nos. and there are various winches on that ship alone. At least 4, possibly 5 different types of winches currently on board. A blanket statement regarding this equipment is not only naïve but just doesn't cut it when trying to build a scale shipmodel with any degree of authenticity.

When I was researching similar equipment on NEW JERSEY (1967-69) for my 1:200 model, I managed to actually find online a patent drawing granted to the inventor of the Welin Davit Co. davit winch used on the IOWA class, as built - by zooming into a b/w photo of the port side 26' MTB on MISSOURI, I was able to put the two together as being the same winch. This was a singular event.

Dr. PR has a small group of winches he has drawn up in 3D CAD for his cruiser project but the models of these various winches are not all the same as used on the IOWA class. One other instance of finding information in an unlikely place was that the late Richard Landgraff discusses his involvement with replacing the main deck winches on MISSOURI (or NEW JERSEY) when he supervised much of the steel fab. work on the 80s battleship refits done at Long Beach Shipyard. In the 1st edition of his book A History of the Long Beach Naval Shipyard, Roosevelt Base & Reeves Field N.A.S. he describes his efforts to find suitable, if not identical models of the original winches and also has a photo of the equipment. The original manufacturer had been bought out at least once and he ended up with a couple scrapyard units which ultimately were not used on board. Unfortunately, he never went into the model nos. etc. as far as providing details. But, the point is - finding this information, esp. drawings or other pertinent information about this equipment is a pains-taking task.

APAs (as well as all other amphibious vessels) have various types & sizes of winches all over and while usually in pairs; these units could come from any number of vendors. I would suggest writing one of the museum ship organizations (SS JOWN W. BROWN, SS AMERICAN VICTORY, SS JEREMIAH O'BRIEN) and see if they can't provide you with equipment types, model nos., possible plans/drawnings, or cut sheets on this equipment.

I know this doesn't answer your questions, but might give you a direction or two to pursue, etc.

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Thanks for the explanation and I have already looked online at the Jeremiah O'Brian and John Brown Liberty ship websites , providing a fair range of photos of what appears to be a reasonably standard configuration although there are obvious differences between the 2 ships. I might yet contact them but, as the model project is fairly generic, I was hoping as much as anything to confirm my deductions on overall dimensions and layout rather than get into too much detail that won't be matched elsewhere on the model anyway.

Thanks - as explained above I wasn't modelling a specific unit so a generic example would be good enough. Having spent much time in the past measuring and taking photos of deck items on an RN destroyer I fully agree that it is very painstaking!

Forward 40 mm Quad.

Barrels wood, Rest is styrene and brass wire.

Forward gunhouse:

Holy cow!! Amazing work, especially on the LCMs! Looking forward to more photos! I also like working in the larger scales like 1/125, 1/144, etc. I am currently in about my 4th week of applying decals to 1/800ish aircraft for the Akii Midway. I don't know how these 1/700 scale modelers to this!

Thanks! I ended up in 1:120 by default a that was the scale of my ancient hull. I have been asked about working in an "odd scale", but actually it is great as with a set of digital calipers no conversion needed, you can read off feet and decimals of feet directly. It might be a disadvantage to work in a scale where there are few if any commercial products, but that has turned into a challenge. Song has been my inspiration as he even scratch builds his anchor chain, to a high standard.

I'd like to repeat what BB62vet said about patents.

I found the patent for the motor whaleboat winch that was on the OK City. It is a long shot, but you can search the US Patents for winches and look for patents from a specific manufacturer - if you know which one made the winches on your ship.

This can be time consuming because often many different parts of winches were parented, including a lot of ideas that never went into production.

You may or may not find drawings for winches in the BuShips blueprints in the National Archives. But the drawings will tell who the manufacturer was, and even give the manufacturer's drawing numbers.

At any given time the Navy was ordering only a relatively small number of winch types, based upon lifting capacity. These were used on a wide variety of ships.

You should try to contact the museum ships. They can tell you what winches are on the ships, and they may even have the drawings.

Phil

Edit: I have posted images of the winches used on the Cleveland class cruisers and CLGs here:

https://www.okieboat.com/CAD%20miscellaneous.html

They might be similar to what was used on the APAs.

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Thanks for the info. The APA main winches have two main cable spools and a cat head and the topping lifts a single spool and cat head. The Whelan Davit winches are very similar to the ones you show except they have a more box like cable housing. I remember using similar winches aboard Eurale AS 22, which at one time had been used as a Sub Tender, built on a merchant hull.

I think I had to make something like 16 of the little buggers. I may do a few minor mods to them still. I made a master and resin cast the rest, then added cable spools and cat heads turned on my lathe.

Here is the 03 level. The decks are plexiglass and the bulkheads basswood. Note the Captain's chairs on the bridge wings. The decks are located one above another by the wooden blocks.

Fwd 40 mm tubs

Fire Hydrant

MK 51 Director

Tom,

Your small detailed items are quite well done - I would say they rival the 3D printed commercial parts. Very nice work!!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Boat winch. These used a rectangular cabinet around the spools.

Thanks Hank. Each little item is sort of it's own small modeling project. Making inclined ladders today.

Cheers: Tom

To make my inclined ladders I use a Jig from 1/16" plexiglass. The ladder material is 0.0085" Strathmore Velum faced artists paper. The back rail is taped to the far side of the jig and the steps glued to the back rail with wood glue. This does not stick to the jig. Then I glue the front rail with CA and pop the ladder out of the jig and ad a little CA to the back rail.

My experience with Strathmore papers for ship construction is that they are durable for at least the 55 years that they have held up for so far on models I made ages ago.

Forward Hatch. On top of the hatch are installed cradles for two 36' LCVP's and a moveable frame attaches to the pile for another two to be stored above.