The Ship Model Forum

Hi Guys ,

hereby some explanations why I will begin with the building of that particular "Man-O-War"...

First of all , the characteristics :

HMS Zinnia was a sloop , belonging to the so called "Flower" class , built under the "Emergency War Programme"

She was built by Swan Hunter on the Tyne , wore the yard number 1000 , and was laid down in 1915

the WW1 "Flower" class was subdivided in three classes , the "Arabis , "Azalea" & "Acacia" sub-classes

dimensions & displacement varied between the classes , the "Arabis" being two feet longer ( 252 feet lon OA for 250 feet for the others ) and displaced 50 tons more than the two other types.

Most of them were equiped with mine sweeping equipment .

All of them were conceived to attain the speed of 18 knots , but most of them never attained the designed speed once in their lives , their four cylinder triple expansion engines only delivering 1400 IHP , while they should have had to devellop 2400 IHP to attain & sustain 18 knots in service ...

They were known to be very good sea boats ( according to the 1920 Jane's Fighting Ships )

72 of them were built , 56 survived the WW1.

HMS Zinnia was put in reserve in 1919 & was built by Belgium in 1920 , together with three "Mersey" class drifters & one ship who wore the name of HMS Kernot during WW2 , but I couldn't verify the type nor the class of Kernot by now ...

Zinnia ( the name remained the same , without the HMS, of course ) was intended to be used as a fishery protection vessel , duty she did without any major problem till 1940 , when she was seized by the nazis , at Ostend , badly damaged by an air bomb .

She was towed to Germany , refitted with a new more modern stem , and sailed in the Baltic as a artillery training vessel for the Kriegs Marine crews

In 1945 , she was found somewhere in germany , and brought back to Belgium , got her function & name back .

But the "State Navy" ( a Belgian State Marine has been created during the 1800 to protect the borders and the sea in there , the governements at that time never wanted to have a real "Navy" , with real "sailors" and real "ships" with guns ) didn't express the wish to keep Zinnia , too obsolete for the intended missions .

So , Zinnia was transferred to the just born "Force navale/Zeemacht" , the maritime military part of the belgian ministry of defence , the RNSB ( Royal Navy belgian Section ) having been dismissed by the British Admiralty in ... ... 1946

But the Belgian Navy , having renamed her "Breydel" , could do nothing with her , too old to be efficient ( she was still coal fired ) , and so she was sold for scrap in 1949 , she was put into pieces at Boom , near Antwerpen ...

My motivation , to me , to build that model is multiple :

1 . I love her lines
2 . She is a part of my Country's History
3 . I always have built merchant ships , and for my first "man-O-war" , I wanted something easy to begin with ( even if I'm not a beginner in scratch building ship models )

About ten or twelve years ago , I began to look after plans in Belgium , at the State Marine Archives , where they told me they never had plans of those ships , blah-blah-blah

Knowing meanwhile that the ship was built in UK , I contacted in 1998 the NMM at Greenwich , where they were pleased to send me plans for the Zinnia ( and not for a sister ship ) , for the "small" fee of 99 UK£
(Outch ! it hurted a lot )

So , after having dreamed of this ship for more than 15 years from now , I decided to begin with the building , be prepared to see something "else" , I'm a convinced user of "Bristol" cardboard instead of polystyrol or ABS , much cheaper & even strong and even watertight when coated properly ( the guys frequenting the Debris Field Message board know about what I'm speaking here ... )

hereby some scans of the plans I bought at the NMM ...

Profile :


Forecastle deck:


hull lines :


Shell expansion plan :


the frames , drawn on paper ang glued on a 3mm thick ply plank :




That's it for today , you'll get an update very soon , it's weekend right now !

Regards ,

laurent

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Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

As an Belgian Navy member myself, I'm very kean to following this!
Laurent, I have seen some of your builds on other forums, and I like the cardboard idea, will try this one day myself.
Good luck with the build

Sorry Admiral Ron, but you lost a fan to Laurent
I'm kiddin' Admiral, please don't send your Home Fleet, nor ban me

It's always good to see another way of scratchbuilding, and to find new materials (litho must be the most famous amongst them!)

Greetz, Johan

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VENTIS SECUNDIS

253 269 863 261 471 958 220 370 4 21 19 24

Nice to see another build on the board, looking forward to this build, the first HMS BRYONY was one of these sloops, I built the second flower HMS BRYONY 1942.

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Simple but effective.

Johan, I always say, support your country men.

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Simple but effective.

Looks very interesting - definitely looking forward to seeing the build in progress!
There's a ship of this class (or similar) preserved on the Thames in London, though heavily modified from it's original warship configuration. It's known as HMS President, but was built as HMS Saxifrage.

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Model Ship Kit Reviews

Now that's a man with a plan!!!!

Ron you just lost another fan
Will be following this one closely!

What kind of sources do you have? Are you going to paint her in Belgian service or still "HMS Zinnia" as the title says?

Regards
Roel

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The merchant shipyard

Looks like I will have to send in the heavies, NC and ID to blast this Sinner off the board,

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Simple but effective.

Oh well, starting a 1/72 Udaloy would do just fine.


Annoyingly people have started taking over my Belgian flag, now I have a harder time finding my posts back. Anyhow I'm pretty happy we are now represented a bit more, I started to feel lonely after a few years

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The merchant shipyard

Hi all ,

@ Roel ,

the only source I have is the plan from the Admiralty , and two pictures of her when she flyed the Belgian flag ...

Not much , I know , but this is all , I tryed to contact the Archives of the Ministery of Communications years ago , I was in contact with an archivist but he was unable to give me any interesting item , except financial & other historical informations I don't need to build a model ...

There is also a model of Zinnia at the Army Museum at Brussels , I remember seeing it a long while ago , but that model is now in the basement , "in reserve" . Interesting to note is that that model is made out of brass

@ ARH ,

you offended me , so I have the choice of the weapon : I decided my weapon would be beer , belgian beer of course , not that british lukewarm stuff you are used to drink ...

hereby more pictures , taken yesterday ( it was a rainy day , so I stayed home ) ...

here a whole shot of the scene :


two shots of the stern area :



frames 1 , 2 , 3 , 9 , 10 , 10 1/2 , A.P. will remain in the hull , the others frames lying in the centre of the hull are on the "shipyard" to shape the hull , they will be removed when the hull is ready . To avoid those frames being glued on the skin planking , they were coated with tape :


hereby three bow shots , the bow being reinforced by a metal stem , so , as you say it in the RN : "never cross the bow of a Senior Officer" , it will be of application when I'm on the pond ...





the metal stem bar ( or plate , in this case )


interesting to know about those ships , is that the design of the "Flower" class was used as a base for the building of some Q-ships , which got the same machinery as the "Flowers" ...

I've been told either that some "Flowers" were altered in their appearance during WW1 to ressemble to merchant ships ( one funnel , two masts with load booms ) but I never saw any confirmation of this assertion ...

The Q-ships were apparently manned by RN men , were intended to sail in convoy with other merchant vessels , but when a german sub surfaced , the Q-ship went full speed ahead , all guns unmasked , gunned the sub and afterwards tryed to ram it ...

I have no idea if those Q-ships were really efficient and if they have scored any success ...

I have two days holidays from this afternoon , I think the hull should be ready by wednesday PM ...

I thought initially to represent her with the RN White Ensign , if Zinnia had sailed in "dazzle & drab" colour scheme , but I'm also tending to represent her as she was under Belgian Flag , without guns , and with a very light grey colour ...

I didn't made up my mind yet ...

Anyway , the propulsion unit is ordered , the shaft tube/shaft assembly and the electric motor ( Speed 280 ) with built in 2 to 1 reduction come from "Graupner" ( reference 1147 ) , the speed controller comes also from Graupner , it will be the same layout than in my "Mount's bay" ( with only one prop in the case of Zinnia )

a link to my previous model , the sea going tug "Mount's bay" :
http://www.russellwild.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1211

Kind regards to you all ,

Laurent

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Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

Hi all ,

some further works have been going on .

After having put one plank at the very bottom of the hull ( remember that there is no keel in this hull ) , I always go further on my hulls with the side planking , in this case , I've put 5 planks on each side ...



When those 5 first planks are on , I then begin with the bottom planking , and when the bottom planking meets the side planking , there begins the tricky part



bottom planking meeting the side planking at the bow .


I call it the tricky part because the planks have to be cut to the right length , to fit in between the top and bottom planking , and they also have to be put in shape , but this will be for the following pictures session.

The other annoying part of this ship is the canoë stern , some difficulties to put the planking to shape are encountered , no need to wet the wood for this , just applying pressure with good clamps and let the glue set for a few hours


hereby two shots of the stern :




For now , the hull is completely planked , it is sanded to shape , except for the bulbous stern , that will be made with blocks ( you'll get pics tomorrow or the day after tomorrow ... ) and is ready to be coated & impregnated with polyurethane resin , first inside the hull to inforce the wood .

then , the hull will be coated with a first layer of 0,3 mm thick cardboard , on which I will draw the plating , a bit like this ( a tug hull at 1/100 ) :



I apply a first layer of thicker paper ( 0,3 mm ) to erase the little uneven ruggedness & tiny holes on the wood

the plating itself will be made of paper being 0,15 mm thick paper , the same hull in the process of being plated :


So , I still have to take new pictures , and as already said here above , you should get them tomorrow or friday ...

Regards ,

Laurent

_________________
Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

Hi all ,

as said yesterday , some other pictures :

the stern part , seen from above & inside :


internal view of the front of the model :


the stem bar/plate :


transition of the planking in the bow area :


same transition in the stern area :


a stern shot :


a whole view of the hull upside down :


one of the problems I met , with such thin planking and such hull dimensions , having built the hull without glued frames , is that the hull showed some distorsion in the height , the "keel" was not straight ( read : flat ) as it ought to , so I had to glue a keel inside and two stringers at the side .

to flatten the hull , I glued a stanchion between a deck stringer and the hull :


hereby two pictures I got from a fellow modeller from France :



have a nice day ,

laurent

_________________
Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

What a nice hull!!!

Serious & Quality work at Laurent 's Shipyards


Compliment


Jef

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Current 1/700 WL
HMS Repulse

Hi Laurant,

Belgian modellers are taking over this building forum
Your hull is looking fine , interesting build , will follow this build also.

regards,

Ludwig

Sorry guys , that was me , forgot to log in. Laurent , apologize for writing your name incorrectly.

regards,

Ludwig

Hi all ,

thanks for your kind comments ...

by the way , I don't know if our french friends here do know it , but eight of those sloops were built in UK and sold to the French Navy , which commissioned them as the "Aldebaran class" avisos .

those french vessels were in fact better than the british ones , as they got a more powerful machinery ( 2400 IHP ) which allowed them to attain the speed of 17+ knots during the trials .

I have no information about those french vessels fate , I just know from the 1919 "Jane's" edition that one was lost during WW1 ...

@ Ludwig ,

yes , it seems there is a Belgian stock option on this message board , hehe ...

See you all next time for an update !

Laurent

_________________
Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

Good looking start to a nice loking model!

Well done!

JIM Baumann

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....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com

Hi all ,

the hull is completely planked after in total three days of planking , the sanding took 4 days ( I HATE sanding , by chance , I have such a dremel electric sander , it goes fast & easy )

the next steps were :

- apply a first layer of cardboard , 0,25 mm tick , which will serve as underlayer for the actual plating

- put the running gear ( motor and his reduction gear , propeller tube & shaft )

- resin the inside of the hull with G4 ( one component polyurethane resin )

hereby the pictures , with some comments were I feel it was needed :

This is how I apply my planking at the bow , to avoid those "fat" noses


"propulsion engine" , you may see the gears , ratio 2 to 1 , reference 1147 by "Graupner" , in the foreground , the 2 Amps electronic speed controller


Some deck beams were added , with a certain camber , in this portion of the hull , the G4 has been already applied , before the forecastle deck comes on


Dry fitting the f'c'stle deck , observe the camber


Now , the first cardboard layer :

the card used comes from my work , where all the ancient files are put on PC , the paper is just thrown in the garbage , I'm collecting in there all I need ( just call me "el Cheapo" , I guess )

the bottom :




at the bow , seen from under


the bow again , seen from starboard side , to apply the paper on the bow's flare , I had to work with little pieces


dry fitting the main deck ( balsa 2 mm thick )




Yesterday , I completely impregnated the hull with G4 , the underside of the two decks is also coated

see you later for more updates ,

Laurent

_________________
Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

Hi Laurent that's an interesting project. You say it took 4 days to sand the outer timber shell. A tip. One of the guys in our ship society is a master at building hulls and he uses no fillers and only slightly sands down the hull. In past seminars he’s shown both Ron and myself a few of his superb tricks of the trade. One simple one is to chamfer the edge of each length of plank so they marry in to each other, especially on the curve. You will be surprised how really effective this is.
Dave Wooley

Hi Dave ,

When I build my hulls , I try to have the planks joining very good together , to have a flat surface .

But even then , at the turn of the bilge and at the stern part , you still have "angles" that have to be sanded ...

In case of Zinnia , I discovered that there was some "meat" missing at the bow flare , there was a discrepancy between the hull lines plan and the plan of the f'c'stle deck seen from above , the deck plan showed a f'c'stle deck broader than the hull lines plan did ( about two millimeters broader on each side ) ...

I decided to rely on the deck plan instead of the hull lines plan , it adds some more flare at the bow , what adds some buoyancy on an R/C'ed model

But as I 'm not a polyester putty fan , I added this "meat" by adding some planks above the existing ones , planks that have been sanded to shape .

putting a first layer of cardboard on the wood also evens a little the rougher wooden surface ...

Cheers ,

Laurent

_________________
Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess

Hi Guys ,

some fresh pictures , from today :

some bow shots , the holes for the hawse pipes are done & shaped :






the hull , upside down , the first cardboard layer is put almost everywhere , except for the strakes near de decks , strakes which will be added once the decks are glued on ...


a bow shot from behind :


some views of the stern post , the plastic three bladed prop is crap , I still have to build a four bladed brass one , with a M2 thread ...

stern post has been done out of a epoxy print card , double coated with copper , thickness : 1,8 mm






a view of the propulsion battery ( Ni-Cd , 6 Volts , 2400 mA )


a little anticipation about the wooden decks , which will not be done in ... wood , but in cardboard .

Nope , I aint nuts , I can assure you

once the "planking" is drawn on the card and those decks are glued on the balsa "under" deck , I'll just have to coat it with a matt varnish , available in every DIY shop , sold in spray cans & it will be waterproof ...

hereby the base , such a thick solid card box , to put archives in it , costs about 1 UK£ / 1,5 € / 2 US$ , and with this box , I should have enough for the whole model ...


this is the colour & grain ( looks just as pitchpine , like on the real ship ) :


and this is what can be done ( from another unfinished project )


last work for today : the hawse pipes

I've done this with aluminium tubing , 4/5 mm in diameter





the hawse pipes being filed to shape :






See you later for the next update ...

Laurent

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Scared of Nothing , Always Thirsty

Just call me the "Cereals Box Killer" , I guess