The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:09 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 126 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:02 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Scratchbuilding USS Saratoga CV-3, 1944 in 1/350 scale.

This model will depict Saratoga late war with asymmetrical hull, cut-down funnel, and heavy AA fit. It is NOT being converted from the Trumpeter kit.

Jim Russell did convert the Trumpeter kit into a 1944 Saratoga beautifully. You can see his conversion here: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=39515&start=0

Actual ship length overall: 910' - 1-3/4"
Model Length: 31.205 inches (79.26 cm).
Material: Evergreen polystyrene sheet, strips, tubing, rods, H-sections, etc.
Hull construction method: double plank on frame
Plans and References:
1. US Navy Booklet of General Plans dated 1942 (implemented following Kamikaze damage sustained on February 21, 1945), available from Floating Drydock
2. US Navy Booklet of General Plans dated April 23, 1936 (implemented during a refit in December, 1943, plans updated Aug., 1944 to include cross sections - vitally important for this build).
3. US Navy Booklet of General Plans for USS Lexington CV-2, dated 1936, for comparison
4. detail photos and comments posted by Tracy White (invaluable)
5. photos from USS Saratoga Squadron at Sea by David Doyle (Tracy contributed much to that effort).
6. hull sections for USS Lexington CV-2, drawn by Thomas Walkowiak, available from Floating Drydock.

Technique inspiration:
Paul Budzik's masterful scratch-built USS Enterprise CV-6 http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Enterprise%20Scratch/Enterprise_Scratch.html

Finish inspiration:
Martin Quinn’s exquisite prewar USS Lexington CV-2:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-02/350-mq/mq-index.html

Your advice, constructive criticism and comments are most welcome and appreciated.


Attachments:
Sara 1944.jpg
Sara 1944.jpg [ 93.38 KiB | Viewed 14188 times ]
CV-3 1944 020315.jpg
CV-3 1944 020315.jpg [ 165.97 KiB | Viewed 13076 times ]
CV-3 1944 020316.jpg
CV-3 1944 020316.jpg [ 125.01 KiB | Viewed 13076 times ]
CV-3 1944 020317.jpg
CV-3 1944 020317.jpg [ 156.38 KiB | Viewed 13076 times ]
Model Monkey Flyer A5.2016.10.jpg
Model Monkey Flyer A5.2016.10.jpg [ 114.93 KiB | Viewed 8114 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:11 pm, edited 16 times in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:50 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Here's a nice shot of the framing underway from several months ago.


Attachments:
2014-01-29 11.17.24A.jpg
2014-01-29 11.17.24A.jpg [ 158.11 KiB | Viewed 14451 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12132
Location: Ottawa, Canada
She looks great!

The image size limit is 200kb - note that the photos in your first post occupy only 12-13kb each, so you can definitely upload larger versions of them!

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:34 am 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Thanks, Timmy. Here we go.


Attachments:
2014-08-23 20.46.44C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.46.44C.jpg [ 60.39 KiB | Viewed 14422 times ]
2014-08-23 20.47.36C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.47.36C.jpg [ 75.91 KiB | Viewed 14422 times ]
2014-08-23 20.58.28C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.58.28C.jpg [ 76.42 KiB | Viewed 14422 times ]
2014-08-23 20.59.26C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.59.26C.jpg [ 84.48 KiB | Viewed 14422 times ]
2014-08-23 21.00.09C.jpg
2014-08-23 21.00.09C.jpg [ 139.92 KiB | Viewed 14422 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 8151
Location: New Jersey
Those are much better. All the better to see the outstanding work you've done!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:51 am
Posts: 2406
Location: Belgium
Indeed much better those pics. That's a pretty sharp and very handsome hull! I'm following this one closely. Always loved flattops, lots of hull, little else :big_grin:

_________________
The merchant shipyard


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:49 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: The beautiful PNW
Ooh ooh, me like! :thumbs_up_1: seriously, looks amazing. Will watch with much interest.

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:46 am
Posts: 2409
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Nice work. Really like the look of the late war Sara.

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:45 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Thanks for all the kind comments!

Image

As Lord Dingwall, from the movie Brave, would say "Feast yer eyes!" - Saratoga sure has pleasing lines.

The fine hull form of the prototype is readily apparent. It's easy to imagine why Saratoga achieved 35 knots during trials.


Attachments:
2014-08-28 18.02.58A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.02.58A.jpg [ 156.11 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 18.02.38A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.02.38A.jpg [ 189.73 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 18.02.11A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.02.11A.jpg [ 189.41 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 18.01.09A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.01.09A.jpg [ 189.64 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 18.00.57A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.00.57A.jpg [ 186.16 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 18.00.43A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.00.43A.jpg [ 183.11 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 18.00.10A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.00.10A.jpg [ 188.77 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]
2014-08-28 17.59.53A.jpg
2014-08-28 17.59.53A.jpg [ 194.84 KiB | Viewed 14201 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:49 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: The beautiful PNW
Are you planning on building her in her dazzle paint scheme? I notice the plans you are using is from her post Kamikaze damage rebuild when she was converted to a training carrier. Either way, great looking build so far!

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:07 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Thanks for all the kind comments and encouragement!

taskforce48 wrote:
Are you planning on building her in her dazzle paint scheme? I notice the plans you are using is from her post Kamikaze damage rebuild when she was converted to a training carrier. Either way, great looking build so far!

Matt


Hi Matt,

I do indeed plan to paint it in its dazzle scheme. It looks really dramatic to my eye.

As you noticed, the drawing lying on the flight deck in the photos is the 1945 post-Kamikaze damage refit configuration. I am actually using a different set of US Navy Booklet of General Plans from August 1944 to model the flight deck for the post 1944 refit (but pre-Kamikaze hit, two elevators).


Attachments:
Sara BoGP 1944 sample - small.jpg
Sara BoGP 1944 sample - small.jpg [ 197.82 KiB | Viewed 14092 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 1257
Location: Detroit area
That should look awesome; I don't think I've ever seen a picture of Sara in her dazzle scheme.

It's funny how the Lexington class incorporates some design elements that outlived her successor classes and were incorporated into the modern supercarrier, such as the fully-enclosed bow and closed-off hangar deck for added protection (or whatever the reason was). Someday I want to build either Sara or Lex, if only to see those beautiful lines for myself.

_________________
Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:57 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Goodwood wrote:
It's funny how the Lexington class incorporates some design elements that outlived her successor classes and were incorporated into the modern supercarrier, such as the fully-enclosed bow and closed-off hangar deck for added protection (or whatever the reason was). Someday I want to build either Sara or Lex, if only to see those beautiful lines for myself.


I agree, in many ways, the Lexington class carriers were ahead of their time. And I enjoy studying their features.

One of the most interesting features of the two sisters is the rudder. It has a distinct flare at the top that conforms to the shape of the hull and the bottom is in the shape of a diamond. Also interesting, the rams which operate the rudder are partially exposed. I have tried to capture the complex shape of the original rudder. Compare this effort with the Trumpeter rudder which appears to be accurate in profile but wholly inaccurate in shape.

The aft end of the starboard stability blister is just visible in the first photo. At this end, the outboard blister side tightly conforms with the contour of the hull. At midships, the outboard side is vertical and extends a considerable distance from the side of the hull.

Strake detail is also visible in this photo. It was a swine to get to look good and considerable study of photos of the actual ship was necessary to identify, locate and measure. This was only possible thanks to Tracy, Dave Doyle, and the hull sections on sheets 18 and 19 of the 1936 plans.


Attachments:
rudder_B.jpg
rudder_B.jpg [ 153.44 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
Trumpeter CV-2 Rudder.jpg
Trumpeter CV-2 Rudder.jpg [ 32.65 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 Rudder 2.jpg
2014-09-09 Rudder 2.jpg [ 131.71 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 Rudder 3.jpg
2014-09-09 Rudder 3.jpg [ 161.07 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-07 Rudder.jpg
2014-09-07 Rudder.jpg [ 140.88 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr 2.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr 2.jpg [ 194.69 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr.jpg [ 196.51 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port mod.jpg [ 189.42 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr 2.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr 2.jpg [ 153.35 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr.jpg [ 167.6 KiB | Viewed 14005 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:38 am, edited 5 times in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:01 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Compare the 1944 flight deck plan laid on top the model with the 1945 post-Kamikaze refit flight deck plan.


Attachments:
File comment: 1944 plan - two elevators.
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd mod.jpg [ 155.68 KiB | Viewed 14007 times ]
File comment: 1945 plan - enlarged forward elevator; deleted aft elevator.
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Port mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Port mod.jpg [ 193.63 KiB | Viewed 14007 times ]
File comment: 1945 plan - enlarged forward elevator; deleted aft elevator.
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Strbrd mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Strbrd mod.jpg [ 157.58 KiB | Viewed 14007 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:49 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: The beautiful PNW
Very impressive detailing!

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
USS Utah AG-16
On Hold
1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 pm 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Thanks, Matt!

Here you can see that chocks and hawse pipes have been roughed in, docking keels have been installed, and the hull has been primed. In 1942, Saratoga's starboard main anchor hawse pipe had been conspicuously plated over. Next installations include propeller shaft housings and port-side bilge keel (no starboard-side bilge keel after the installation of the large starboard side stability blister).

Taking a break from further detailing the hull, Flight Deck work has begun. The flight deck's major structures and details for 1944 have been penciled on the styrene deck. Plans for the 1944 flight deck and 1945 flight deck lay alongside for comparison purposes.


Attachments:
2014-09-23 12.44.30 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.44.30 - Web.jpg [ 107.17 KiB | Viewed 13780 times ]
2014-09-23 12.44.45 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.44.45 - Web.jpg [ 137.89 KiB | Viewed 13780 times ]
2014-09-23 12.45.30 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.45.30 - Web.jpg [ 131.19 KiB | Viewed 13770 times ]
2014-09-23 12.43.22 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.43.22 - Web.jpg [ 109.2 KiB | Viewed 13770 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:40 am, edited 5 times in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 8151
Location: New Jersey
Loving this build!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:36 am 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Thanks, Martin! Your work has always inspired me!

Here's an excerpt from the 1936 design showing the asymmetrical hull to good effect as well as the proper, and structurally logical, location of the docking keels. The hull bottom is not flat but has a subtle deadrise.

Notice the starboard stability blister. Here at midships, the outboard blister side is vertical and extends a considerable distance from the side of the hull. Also note that the starboard side has no bilge keel. The port side bilge keel is present.


Attachments:
Saratoga 1936 design-Web.jpg
Saratoga 1936 design-Web.jpg [ 150.91 KiB | Viewed 13736 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:01 am
Posts: 1640
Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
The docking keels are an interesting evolutionary step. German capital ships of this period had docking keels external to the hull, but far better streamlined to reduce drag that what you see on ModelMonkey's hull. The drawing shows them to be relatively thin external plates.

Later hulls (Iowa class and Cleveland class for example) had the docking keels entirely internal to the hull - basically reinforced longitudinals. This arrangement didn't produce drag like the external structures.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:32 am 
Offline
Model Monkey
Model Monkey

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 3950
Location: USA
Phil, great discussion.

Here are a few more excerpts of plans to illustrate Phil's point. The last is of USS Missouri BB-63 showing the heavy internal structure acting as docking keels. Compare to that of Saratoga.

Notice in the middle photo, the outboard stability blister side nearly conforms with the contour of the hull, but as shown above, at midships, the outboard side is vertical and extends a considerable distance from the side of the hull. On the model, the styrene part cut to form the outboard side looked like a twisted banana peel before installation. I made it using a template drawn and cut from paper, a technique very useful for making hull sides and strakes. And as the old addage goes, "measure twice, cut once".

I have wondered how the external docking keels may have adversely affected the Lexington class ships' maneuverability in addition to adding drag. For example, general hull differences between USS Yorktown CV-5 and USS Lexington CV-2 aside, some post-Coral Sea comments indicate Yorktown was far, far more maneuverable than Lexington. Several Yorktown crew members reported that their ship, when avoiding torpedoes and bombs at Coral Sea, could turn "like a destroyer" - an exaggeration of course, but it illustrates the point. Your thoughts?


Attachments:
Sara 1936 plan docking keel - Web.jpg
Sara 1936 plan docking keel - Web.jpg [ 110.7 KiB | Viewed 13670 times ]
Sara 1936 plan aft docking keel - Web.jpg
Sara 1936 plan aft docking keel - Web.jpg [ 133.68 KiB | Viewed 13670 times ]
BB-63 1950 plan aft - Web.jpg
BB-63 1950 plan aft - Web.jpg [ 175.42 KiB | Viewed 13670 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.™

-Steve L.

Complete catalog: - https://www.model-monkey.com/
Follow Model Monkey® on Facebook: - https://www.facebook.com/modelmonkeybookandhobby
Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 126 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Paul_541 and 7 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group