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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:02 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Scratchbuilding USS Saratoga CV-3, 1944 in 1/350 scale.

This model will depict Saratoga late war with asymmetrical hull, cut-down funnel, and heavy AA fit. It is NOT being converted from the Trumpeter kit.

Jim Russell did convert the Trumpeter kit into a 1944 Saratoga beautifully. You can see his conversion here: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=39515&start=0

Actual ship length overall: 910' - 1-3/4"
Model Length: 31.205 inches (79.26 cm).
Material: Evergreen polystyrene sheet, strips, tubing, rods, H-sections, etc.
Hull construction method: double plank on frame
Plans and References:
1. US Navy Booklet of General Plans dated 1942 (implemented following Kamikaze damage sustained on February 21, 1945), available from Floating Drydock
2. US Navy Booklet of General Plans dated April 23, 1936 (implemented during a refit in December, 1943, plans updated Aug., 1944 to include cross sections - vitally important for this build).
3. US Navy Booklet of General Plans for USS Lexington CV-2, dated 1936, for comparison
4. detail photos and comments posted by Tracy White (invaluable)
5. photos from USS Saratoga Squadron at Sea by David Doyle (Tracy contributed much to that effort).
6. hull sections for USS Lexington CV-2, drawn by Thomas Walkowiak, available from Floating Drydock.

Technique inspiration:
Paul Budzik's masterful scratch-built USS Enterprise CV-6 http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Enterprise%20Scratch/Enterprise_Scratch.html

Finish inspiration:
Martin Quinn’s exquisite prewar USS Lexington CV-2:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-02/350-mq/mq-index.html

Your advice, constructive criticism and comments are most welcome and appreciated.


Attachments:
Sara 1944.jpg
Sara 1944.jpg [ 93.38 KiB | Viewed 9124 times ]
CV-3 1944 020315.jpg
CV-3 1944 020315.jpg [ 165.97 KiB | Viewed 8012 times ]
CV-3 1944 020316.jpg
CV-3 1944 020316.jpg [ 125.01 KiB | Viewed 8012 times ]
CV-3 1944 020317.jpg
CV-3 1944 020317.jpg [ 156.38 KiB | Viewed 8012 times ]
Model Monkey Flyer A5.2016.10.jpg
Model Monkey Flyer A5.2016.10.jpg [ 114.93 KiB | Viewed 3050 times ]

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-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:11 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Here's a nice shot of the framing underway from several months ago.


Attachments:
2014-01-29 11.17.24A.jpg
2014-01-29 11.17.24A.jpg [ 158.11 KiB | Viewed 9387 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:53 am 
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She looks great!

The image size limit is 200kb - note that the photos in your first post occupy only 12-13kb each, so you can definitely upload larger versions of them!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:34 am 
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Model Monkey
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Thanks, Timmy. Here we go.


Attachments:
2014-08-23 20.46.44C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.46.44C.jpg [ 60.39 KiB | Viewed 9358 times ]
2014-08-23 20.47.36C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.47.36C.jpg [ 75.91 KiB | Viewed 9358 times ]
2014-08-23 20.58.28C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.58.28C.jpg [ 76.42 KiB | Viewed 9358 times ]
2014-08-23 20.59.26C.jpg
2014-08-23 20.59.26C.jpg [ 84.48 KiB | Viewed 9358 times ]
2014-08-23 21.00.09C.jpg
2014-08-23 21.00.09C.jpg [ 139.92 KiB | Viewed 9358 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:57 pm 
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Those are much better. All the better to see the outstanding work you've done!

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"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Indeed much better those pics. That's a pretty sharp and very handsome hull! I'm following this one closely. Always loved flattops, lots of hull, little else :big_grin:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:44 am 
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Ooh ooh, me like! :thumbs_up_1: seriously, looks amazing. Will watch with much interest.

Matt

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:06 pm 
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Nice work. Really like the look of the late war Sara.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:45 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Thanks for all the kind comments!

Image

As Lord Dingwall, from the movie Brave, would say "Feast yer eyes!" - Saratoga sure has pleasing lines.

The fine hull form of the prototype is readily apparent. It's easy to imagine why Saratoga achieved 35 knots during trials.


Attachments:
2014-08-28 18.02.58A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.02.58A.jpg [ 156.11 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 18.02.38A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.02.38A.jpg [ 189.73 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 18.02.11A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.02.11A.jpg [ 189.41 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 18.01.09A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.01.09A.jpg [ 189.64 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 18.00.57A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.00.57A.jpg [ 186.16 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 18.00.43A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.00.43A.jpg [ 183.11 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 18.00.10A.jpg
2014-08-28 18.00.10A.jpg [ 188.77 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]
2014-08-28 17.59.53A.jpg
2014-08-28 17.59.53A.jpg [ 194.84 KiB | Viewed 9137 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:18 am 
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Are you planning on building her in her dazzle paint scheme? I notice the plans you are using is from her post Kamikaze damage rebuild when she was converted to a training carrier. Either way, great looking build so far!

Matt

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:07 pm 
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Model Monkey
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Thanks for all the kind comments and encouragement!

taskforce48 wrote:
Are you planning on building her in her dazzle paint scheme? I notice the plans you are using is from her post Kamikaze damage rebuild when she was converted to a training carrier. Either way, great looking build so far!

Matt


Hi Matt,

I do indeed plan to paint it in its dazzle scheme. It looks really dramatic to my eye.

As you noticed, the drawing lying on the flight deck in the photos is the 1945 post-Kamikaze damage refit configuration. I am actually using a different set of US Navy Booklet of General Plans from August 1944 to model the flight deck for the post 1944 refit (but pre-Kamikaze hit, two elevators).


Attachments:
Sara BoGP 1944 sample - small.jpg
Sara BoGP 1944 sample - small.jpg [ 197.82 KiB | Viewed 9028 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:14 pm 
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That should look awesome; I don't think I've ever seen a picture of Sara in her dazzle scheme.

It's funny how the Lexington class incorporates some design elements that outlived her successor classes and were incorporated into the modern supercarrier, such as the fully-enclosed bow and closed-off hangar deck for added protection (or whatever the reason was). Someday I want to build either Sara or Lex, if only to see those beautiful lines for myself.

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On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
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1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:57 pm 
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Goodwood wrote:
It's funny how the Lexington class incorporates some design elements that outlived her successor classes and were incorporated into the modern supercarrier, such as the fully-enclosed bow and closed-off hangar deck for added protection (or whatever the reason was). Someday I want to build either Sara or Lex, if only to see those beautiful lines for myself.


I agree, in many ways, the Lexington class carriers were ahead of their time. And I enjoy studying their features.

One of the most interesting features of the two sisters is the rudder. It has a distinct flare at the top that conforms to the shape of the hull and the bottom is in the shape of a diamond. Also interesting, the rams which operate the rudder are partially exposed. I have tried to capture the complex shape of the original rudder. Compare this effort with the Trumpeter rudder which appears to be accurate in profile but wholly inaccurate in shape.

The aft end of the starboard stability blister is just visible in the first photo. At this end, the outboard blister side tightly conforms with the contour of the hull. At midships, the outboard side is vertical and extends a considerable distance from the side of the hull.

Strake detail is also visible in this photo. It was a swine to get to look good and considerable study of photos of the actual ship was necessary to identify, locate and measure. This was only possible thanks to Tracy, Dave Doyle, and the hull sections on sheets 18 and 19 of the 1936 plans.


Attachments:
rudder_B.jpg
rudder_B.jpg [ 153.44 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
Trumpeter CV-2 Rudder.jpg
Trumpeter CV-2 Rudder.jpg [ 32.65 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 Rudder 2.jpg
2014-09-09 Rudder 2.jpg [ 131.71 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 Rudder 3.jpg
2014-09-09 Rudder 3.jpg [ 161.07 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-07 Rudder.jpg
2014-09-07 Rudder.jpg [ 140.88 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr 2.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr 2.jpg [ 194.69 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port Aft Qtr.jpg [ 196.51 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Port mod.jpg [ 189.42 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr 2.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr 2.jpg [ 153.35 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd Aft Qtr.jpg [ 167.6 KiB | Viewed 8941 times ]

_________________
Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:38 am, edited 5 times in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:01 pm 
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Compare the 1944 flight deck plan laid on top the model with the 1945 post-Kamikaze refit flight deck plan.


Attachments:
File comment: 1944 plan - two elevators.
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1944 Strbrd mod.jpg [ 155.68 KiB | Viewed 8943 times ]
File comment: 1945 plan - enlarged forward elevator; deleted aft elevator.
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Port mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Port mod.jpg [ 193.63 KiB | Viewed 8943 times ]
File comment: 1945 plan - enlarged forward elevator; deleted aft elevator.
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Strbrd mod.jpg
2014-09-09 CV-3 1945 Strbrd mod.jpg [ 157.58 KiB | Viewed 8943 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Very impressive detailing!

Matt

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1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
1/350 Trumpeter Texas with a twist


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Thanks, Matt!

Here you can see that chocks and hawse pipes have been roughed in, docking keels have been installed, and the hull has been primed. In 1942, Saratoga's starboard main anchor hawse pipe had been conspicuously plated over. Next installations include propeller shaft housings and port-side bilge keel (no starboard-side bilge keel after the installation of the large starboard side stability blister).

Taking a break from further detailing the hull, Flight Deck work has begun. The flight deck's major structures and details for 1944 have been penciled on the styrene deck. Plans for the 1944 flight deck and 1945 flight deck lay alongside for comparison purposes.


Attachments:
2014-09-23 12.44.30 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.44.30 - Web.jpg [ 107.17 KiB | Viewed 8716 times ]
2014-09-23 12.44.45 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.44.45 - Web.jpg [ 137.89 KiB | Viewed 8716 times ]
2014-09-23 12.45.30 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.45.30 - Web.jpg [ 131.19 KiB | Viewed 8706 times ]
2014-09-23 12.43.22 - Web.jpg
2014-09-23 12.43.22 - Web.jpg [ 109.2 KiB | Viewed 8706 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:40 am, edited 5 times in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Loving this build!

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"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:36 am 
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Thanks, Martin! Your work has always inspired me!

Here's an excerpt from the 1936 design showing the asymmetrical hull to good effect as well as the proper, and structurally logical, location of the docking keels. The hull bottom is not flat but has a subtle deadrise.

Notice the starboard stability blister. Here at midships, the outboard blister side is vertical and extends a considerable distance from the side of the hull. Also note that the starboard side has no bilge keel. The port side bilge keel is present.


Attachments:
Saratoga 1936 design-Web.jpg
Saratoga 1936 design-Web.jpg [ 150.91 KiB | Viewed 8672 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey


Last edited by ModelMonkey on Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:14 pm 
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The docking keels are an interesting evolutionary step. German capital ships of this period had docking keels external to the hull, but far better streamlined to reduce drag that what you see on ModelMonkey's hull. The drawing shows them to be relatively thin external plates.

Later hulls (Iowa class and Cleveland class for example) had the docking keels entirely internal to the hull - basically reinforced longitudinals. This arrangement didn't produce drag like the external structures.

Phil

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:32 am 
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Phil, great discussion.

Here are a few more excerpts of plans to illustrate Phil's point. The last is of USS Missouri BB-63 showing the heavy internal structure acting as docking keels. Compare to that of Saratoga.

Notice in the middle photo, the outboard stability blister side nearly conforms with the contour of the hull, but as shown above, at midships, the outboard side is vertical and extends a considerable distance from the side of the hull. On the model, the styrene part cut to form the outboard side looked like a twisted banana peel before installation. I made it using a template drawn and cut from paper, a technique very useful for making hull sides and strakes. And as the old addage goes, "measure twice, cut once".

I have wondered how the external docking keels may have adversely affected the Lexington class ships' maneuverability in addition to adding drag. For example, general hull differences between USS Yorktown CV-5 and USS Lexington CV-2 aside, some post-Coral Sea comments indicate Yorktown was far, far more maneuverable than Lexington. Several Yorktown crew members reported that their ship, when avoiding torpedoes and bombs at Coral Sea, could turn "like a destroyer" - an exaggeration of course, but it illustrates the point. Your thoughts?


Attachments:
Sara 1936 plan docking keel - Web.jpg
Sara 1936 plan docking keel - Web.jpg [ 110.7 KiB | Viewed 8606 times ]
Sara 1936 plan aft docking keel - Web.jpg
Sara 1936 plan aft docking keel - Web.jpg [ 133.68 KiB | Viewed 8606 times ]
BB-63 1950 plan aft - Web.jpg
BB-63 1950 plan aft - Web.jpg [ 175.42 KiB | Viewed 8606 times ]

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Have fun, Monkey around.

-Steve Larsen

Catalogs of over 1900 designs for scale modelers:
3D-printed gray resin (best material!) - https://www.model-monkey.com/
3D-printed Shapeways' white acrylic - https://modelmonkey.wixsite.com/modelmonkey
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