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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Ok, so here we go. It's been running for a while now, with the great help of Dave (and his book) and Ron! I cannot express my thanks enough to both of them in supporting me in this project.

I'll start with some history, like usual with big (and long term) projects.
My main interest in this ship (and sisters) came from the fact that I sailed on both Chaconia and Courcheville as well as the fact that they were built in Belgium and the availability of their plans.

It all started in Flanders, long time ago, there was the Boelwerf, a yard which was building about everything you can imagine, from the days of small riverine craft and transporters to warships, chemical carriers, bulk carriers, fruit carriers and so on, the yard even built the protection of a nuclear power plant and shore tanks. It used to be a very famous yard, being one of the first (if not the first) to have a side launch slipway. It also built the largest LNG carrier of its time (over 30 years ago now, she's still trading "Methania") and a drilling rig "Yatzi".
Technically, as with everything in Belgium and Europe, it became too expensive, government tried to save it with a lot of funding, but some scandals etc. caused a bancrupcy after all.
The history of this class of ships started by the beginning of the 80's. The "Tielrode" was the first of class, followed, one year later by the "Gent" (both named after vilages/cities). They were 155m long and had three cargo tanks as well as three cargo cooling plants. They could carry Ammonia, Propane, Butane, mixes thereof as well as Naphta and a few other products.

these two ships were followed on by another series of slightly modified ships namely, "Cheshire", "Chaconia", "Nyhall" (later renamed Courcheville), they were 10.2m longer than their predecessors, had a slightly different lay-out with the deck tanks being placed just in front of the accomodation block (on the older units the deck tanks were forward) and the addition of aeration fans (2 for each tank) on deck. They were followed by another unit called "Sombeke", which had 3 deck tanks as well as a higher freeboard with a stepped stern (now called Austalgas). Tielrode and Cheshire are now part of the Bergesen fleet.
Gent, Chaconia and Courcheville are part of the Exmar fleet. All of them are again different. Gent was built with two deck tanks of which one was removed. Chaconia was built with only 1 and Courcheville with 2 of them (which she retains up till now).
They represent a very basic quality of Western shipbuilding. A ship could be built according to the needs... You wanted a ship 1m longer, no problem they'd deliver it. Nowadays with South Korean and Chinese shipbuilding, it's like going to the supermarket. You buy a small one, Mid size one, Large one or Very Large one, with the choice of having deck tanks or not. The rest is all exactly the same on all ships. If you want to change something, better to accept the ship, get it in a dry dock somewhere and make your changes there, as in the yard it will cost a lot more to make a change!

But let's not deviate too much.

After building some 1/700 models of ships of our fleet, I decided to go for something big, seeing Ron and Dave's results and with the resources (and memory) at hand, I wanted to try something different.
First things first, I bought a scroll saw, something invaluable for a project like this!

Then I started planning, and more planning, and more of it. The final conclusion was that it just isn't like any other build I've seen here. The design, single propellor with single rudder and big bulb with blunt bow is very different from any battleship!
Technically speaking, it meant I had to cut the propellor shaft through the, central, keel, same for the rudder. After thinking about it myself and some help from Mr. Wooley (who had the same solution as me) I started cutting.
Another "different" feature of a tanker is of course the parallel body sides as well as the flat bottom. Which I decided would be best built from a single piece of wood rather than using the regular fully planked hull and then sand it flat. I also had the drawings for these surfaces, which allowed for a fairly accurate shape. Everything between the deck, sides and bottom has to be planked though.

As usual also there is a rounded deck edge, which is a feature again common to tanker construction. It helps divide the forces, which are the largest around midships. This is also the reason why this rounding stops near the curves of the bow and stern. It's approximately 50% of the ship's length. I tried with a walnut cilinder, but that didn't work out well. Eventually I just bought a half cilindrical shaped piece of cedar. Cut that in half. The frames have a small cut-out on the corners to fit that quarter cilinder. The rest will be finished off with some filler I guess. Having a scroll saw is one thing, having a steady hand is a totally different thing.... :heh:

First view of the shape.

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac145/Sevmash/DSC_0107.jpg

The handy thing on this model is that the baseboard which is normally used to put the frames on the keel, is replaced by the flat bottom of the ship.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac145/Sevmash/DSC_0111.jpg

She was designed with an open cargo tank inside as the tanks in this type of ship are independent. They practically sit on blocks inside the ship's hold spaces. This project was started over four months ago though, and since I left it for that time, the tank, made from thin styrene sheets, has been deforming... Not sure if I'll try to salvage it or if I'll go for a wooden non-openable version.
http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac145/Sevmash/DSC_0112.jpg

This is the stern section. Built seperately

http://i894.photobucket.com/albums/ac145/Sevmash/smDSC_0106.jpg

And here is the real thing:
Image
Image

The good thing about this is that the ballasting doesn't really matter. Her weight can range from 20kg to 32kg full load, distribution is also not that important as the trim of such ships can differ from cargo/voyage to voyage.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Hi Roel I'm really pleased that you have started to not just embark on the construction of a ship from scratch but you have also made the decision to start posting an ongoing build log. It's certainly not easy doing the former but more difficult the latter { as I have found , errors will be made ] and they are there for all to see but more to the point learn from. You have made a good start and I for one will be keenly following and if required supporting your progress in any way I can.
Dave Wooley
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:34 am 
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After last post it fell silent for a couple of months. But now I'm at it again!

Last week's progress. The glue I'm using for the wood, is PU glue, it has "boat construction" as a specific feature and has some gap filling properties too, actually it goes like PU foam in a lesser degree. The parts of the wood that are tightly pushed together will bond without any foaming, if there is a slight gap, the foam will start to form to fill up the gap, ideal if you can't cut any straight edges!

Image

Image

Image

Image

The deck is not glued, nor cut in these pictures. The centre part is horizontal compared to the bottom, but on both sides there is a sloped part to form a camber. I was in doubt whether I could keep the deck in one piece and bend it to follow the curve, yet the "Hardwood Triplex" I'm using isn't exactly easy to manipulate. By now I have cut off the sides and even glued the forward part of the deck.
The centre part, with the deckhouse on top, is/will be, entirely removable to place the tank inside. However, it'll also be used for ballasting and or other purposes. I can enter my entire hull like this without too much of trouble as I can go forward and aft through this big hole. I'll have a little more trouble to hide all the seams and cut off all the deck piping to be able to remove this though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:36 am 
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Ok, so I have advanced quite a bit since last post.
The deck has been cut in three parts, the forward area has been glued to the framing and came out quite nice. The centre piece, which is removable, is also partially finished.
The aft part has been cut and the big entry hole below the superstructure has been cut too. I made a mistake there too, but more on that later.
I started planking today, the curves are playing me parts at the moment. The wood is very bendable, but not that bendable! I'm still a little in doubt about this too. Currently I'm planking in a longitudinal way, parallel to the keel, cutting each plank to fit the bottom plate curves. This is also one of the reasons why the curves are so tough. If I'd planking it in an angled way, the curves would be much less troublesome for the wood, but it would be harder to find a good place to start and to fill up the gap between the bottom and side plates and the planks.
I started with the bow, that part is the least troublesome and curved, I hope to learn enough about the planking to afterwards be able to solve the stern as there it is really challenging!
Here are some pictures of her and the Admiral Tributs which I also dedusted and intend to continue :heh: Unfortunately I don't like Electronics so much, so I keep pushing that job ahead of me, pretty much the reason why she's sitting there for half a week without any job done on her.


Attachments:
File comment: Cedar quarter of a circle bar as it will be fitted on both sides.
Chacced.JPG
Chacced.JPG [ 72.04 KiB | Viewed 15365 times ]
File comment: With the Tributs, Chaconia is about 1 inch/2.5cm longer than Tributs
ChacTrib.JPG
ChacTrib.JPG [ 97.62 KiB | Viewed 15365 times ]
File comment: You can see where the displacement difference comes from, Tributs about 9,000t, Chaconia about 32,000t full load!
ChacTrib2.JPG
ChacTrib2.JPG [ 95.38 KiB | Viewed 15365 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Hi nEptune good to see a comercial vessel from you
i like it...
waiting for more progress
the look is very good and the tanks looks fantastic............is a mini shipyard like real... :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:19 am 
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Slowly slowly we're proceeding now.

So she was turned around before planking. The only problem now is that the planking is going wider and wider, yet near the bow it's going higher and higher. While on the sides I'm still planking the bottom, near the bow I'm getting more than 1 inch from the keel. I guess I'll have to make some sort of inserted part, I saw this on some builds here too.
If there are any rules regarding this, please tell me. If not, I guess it's all up to people's "feel" with planking to solve this "problem".
Here's the canoe turned around, showing her tanker shape in all glory.
Still thinking about that stern section planking though, I suppose it'll be a chain of "inserts" all together.


Attachments:
chacturna.JPG
chacturna.JPG [ 97.06 KiB | Viewed 15327 times ]
chacturnb.JPG
chacturnb.JPG [ 79.95 KiB | Viewed 15327 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:43 am 
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So I started,
I guess filler is always necessary with this type of construction. On one side I think it would have been better to plank everything rather than put these plates on sides and bottom. On the other side, I don't think you'd get a flat finish like this, nor shaped like the real parallel body of the ship.
We'll see how it comes out after applying the filler. I'll also have to do something about the strength of the planking as the attachment to the bottom board is not always good...

If somebody has experience with this, is car body filler watertight? If I'd apply it as an even coat, would it be sufficient or would it require a layer of resin on top of that too?

Here is the planking. Dave was of course correct, if you make the planks wet, shape them and let them dry in that position, they stay more or less like that.


Attachments:
File comment: the lowest plank has a different colour because it's wet. I let it dry for about 15 minutes because the glue isn't working on humid wood.
Planking1.JPG
Planking1.JPG [ 75.52 KiB | Viewed 15284 times ]
File comment: This is the result when it's dry, before gluing.
planking4.JPG
planking4.JPG [ 128.81 KiB | Viewed 15284 times ]
File comment: As you can see, near the bow it's going up from the keel, near the bottom plate I'm still planking the bottom...
planking2.JPG
planking2.JPG [ 67.57 KiB | Viewed 15284 times ]
File comment: Overall view of the planking, doesn't look that good, but I guess it's normal for the learning process!
planking3.JPG
planking3.JPG [ 113.91 KiB | Viewed 15284 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:07 am 
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Hi Roel Keep going you are more than half way there. Don't be to concerned if there are are gaps , once the outer planks are on sand the hull down and apply GRP mat and resin . This will give a good foundation for covering with fillers. After that its just a matter of sanding down the surface untill it's smooth and free from humps and hollows { wet and dry sanding OUT OF DOORS} . You might find you will have to apply fillers to some parts of the hull for a second and maybe a third time untill the surface is smooth and how you want it to be. best of luck .
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:02 am 
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Yeah, a full Iron Duke copy (except for the shape then). I was trying to avoid resin and matting at all cost, but I guess I'll need it after all.
The planking on the bow is now advanced to the last stage, the big bends towards the top. The main issue at hand is now the protective plating on both sides of the forecastle. If I'd make it from the regular planking it will be too thick.
I have some Litho from which I could make the templates, glue that in place and cover with fibreglass to give it strength. But I'm not sure if that will work, if I can fibreglass it without damaging and distorting the Litho. Perhaps a piece of 0.5mm styrene is better suited? Another question is how much thickness will fibreglassing add to my hull? Currently I'm 3mm (1/8 of an inch) too broad on the sides, as I'm using the boards there, the planking is thinner, so I have some allowance there.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:21 am 
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Hi Roel,

when you have no gaps in your planking, you can avoid the fibreglassing way. Don't forget to apply wood glue between your planks, the best glue being that brown PU glue ( D4 quality following EU norms) . Before you put any putty on your hull, sand it till it becomes like a baby skin, soak it then with two or three coats of PU resin, like "G4" sold by Vosschemie, in & out the hull. The wood will be completely "plastified". Then, and only then, you may apply carbody filler & paint.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:59 am 
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Unfortunately I have plenty of gaps, although I do use the brown PU glue. The big disadvantage is that it cures so slow. Whatever planking you see in the next picture took me a week to put :mad_1: :huh:
And I'm doing bow and stern seperately, so it'll take an age! Anyhow, given the amount of pins I'm using, I did put one plank on the stern too, and since the planks are getting shorter and shorter forward again, I'll have some pins spare and so I'll start slowly with the stern.

I'm getting very odd curves now too, near the bow, but at least it starts looking like a ship's bow. On portside I've already cut off some of the planks towards the bow too, where I'll be applying the balsa blocks. From what I'm seeing, I think I took the right decision by stopping the planking there. If I had added another frame, I'd come up with a seperate bulb and top parts and don't think it would have been possible to conveniently plank it! Now at least I can do that with Balsa blocks, I suppose with I'll have a greater chance of success that way!

Another point on the good side is that I've learned a couple of things too by now. Like the lower part. Where you now see the change in pattern from curved to straight planks. Currently I've always sort of measured it with a full straight plank, fitted in place and afterwards drew the border and cut off the lower plank first. I think in the future, I'll leave a little spare on each lower, curved plank and afterwards saw them off to form a straight line. Now I do have a few gaps between the curved plank and the straight one. One important lesson learned, usefull for the stern too I think!


Attachments:
planking.JPG
planking.JPG [ 94.88 KiB | Viewed 15191 times ]
planking2.JPG
planking2.JPG [ 90.65 KiB | Viewed 15191 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:21 am 
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Hi Roel Don't be to hard on yourself your doing just fine . If there are gaps then that's OK, it is not a big problem! You can apply fine GRP mat to the inside and outside of the hull . This will seal any gap or space. Do not be to concerned about the thickness of the mat , tissue matting is paper thin . Once the hull is covered and the GRP well set , you can apply the fillers. This can add a little extra weight but it's a price worth paying to achieve a good finished surface on the hull. Your next hull will be easier believe me . :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:14 am 
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A very nice project... And a beautiful ship too... Looking forward to more progress... :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:11 am 
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Thanks GT and Dave for the interest and support.
The bow is now finished with planking. Next up is the stern planking and balsa blocks.
Next week I'll be out of the house, so no progress will be made then.

For the stern I decided to take a different approach, I'm putting the horizontal plank first, as the curves were becoming too strong due to the very narrow prop shaft trunk. Then I'll be fitting in the lower planks, more measuring and fitting, but hopefully a better result than forward.

I guess it'll be fibreglassing after all. Going slightly over scale, but I guess that won't be too noticeable at such a beam. I'm not too sure about the fibreglassing and where to find the fine matting as I've never done that before (only experience in that field is part of the pond, but with very rough and heavy matting). I hope I can follow the curves well without too many protrusions of fibreglass etc.
The deck forward has a bent camber rather than an angled and straight one like on the main deck. I doubt I can bend the triplex, so I'm still trying to figure out a way to make this.

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:01 am 
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Hello,

There is a type of fiberglass called "veil" which is very thin almost tissue paper like. I think it can be found in weights of 20-90g/sq metre. (not up on all the tech weight specs for fiberglass) I read that is was designed to be used between the gel coat and mat when making parts from a mould. I plan to use it to cover my wooden bridge structure to seal it before using it as a mould plug for my DDE. The wood master is too close to scale to put heavier cloth on.(which was the plan) It is very thin and will not stand up to much sanding but could seal a well sanded hull and not add too much thickness.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:55 am 
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So a small update. Still planking, with a lot of difficulties along the way.
Image

Lessons learned, try to plan the planking better in advance, I had to play around with some plugs to match the forward planking and the aft planking together. Of course, without using the big plates on the side and bottom that problems becomes smaller. I'll need a lot of sanding and filling to make it smooth though.

Furthermore, I've started the most difficult and pronounced curves as you can see in the picture. The basic idea comes from info I gathered from Dave's Rurik hull as shown in his book. I saw he was using this triangular shaped planking, not extending them fully to the ends of the ship, but shaping them against each other not to overstretch the planking in the difficult curves.

That's about it now. I could actually glue two planks, one up and one down of the planks laid, but for now I'll fill up the gap formed by the bottom part of the ship and the curved part. As you can see I'm using a sort of splice shaped planks to fill up the gap between the upper and lower planks. To keep the sharp points of these splices in line with the hull, I have to use clamps and if I continue the planking upwards, I won't have place enough for the clamps...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:22 am 
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Can't wait to see how the bow comes out.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:24 am 
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Hi Neptune good views of the hull.
i still not build my hull so i would like to ask you what timber you are using to plank your model. and what tickness?
good view of model. please updated the building always. :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Timothy, I'm also very curious, I've started on the lower part of the bulb now, but I'm a little lost on how to get the correct shape sanded on the balsa.

Ok then, I'll keep you updated on everything. So here are yet another batch of pictures of the planking process.
As you may have noticed, these ships, like most later Boelwerf ships have this sort of twisting plane on both sides aft, with a distinct edge towards the curved lower aft part of the ship. So I decided to make a flat cut there and glue the planks parallel to the floor in this area.

I use Limewood. It's very flexible when made wet. I'm using 2mm thickness, because I tested a 3mm (without making it wet) and thought it would never be able to follow these curves. Now, after my experience with this 2mm and water, I do think 3mm could have done the job too though. For a Bismarck, which is less extensively curved, certainly 3mm would be advisable. Depending also if you want to fibreglass over it or not.

One major drawback I noticed recently is the fact that the aft part, the part with the aft frames starting from around the propellor shaft which was added later, is about 5mm lower than the rest of the ship, that means my deck would curve down, which in reality it does NOT! So I'm off searching for a solution on that matter. I'm thinking of extending my deck over the transom rather than fitting it inside of it. That would make up for at least 3mm of it. I could then use my current deck as a support as the frames are lower than the others.

As you can see, I'm using some kegs to keep the planks with their full beam against the frame to follow the shape as close as possible. The pins are breaking at a very high pace now, very low quality I guess. I have three more planks to go on each side.

Image
Image
Image
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Thank you Neptune about wood explanations.
i pretend use a brazilian wood cause importation of lime be very expensive.
here the wood i pretend use is expensive too but the board is 1.40meters long.
the case of my planking woods is in the supreme court now :heh:
well i like your hull and your method - yes i pretend use fiberglass inside and filler outside the hull.
thanks a lot :wave_1:


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