The Ship Model Forum

Hi,

under kind pressure of fellow big scale scratchbuilders (thanks englishgunner and drPR) , I so start my own thread about my favourite obsession !

Maybe first a few words of introduction regarding the general background :

- I'm French, 58, industrial designer by trade, specialized in public transportation (read trains mainly) and military matters : I've been lucky enough to work on many current French Navy warships (exterior styling of Aquitaine/Gowind, interior quarters of Barracuda and Brazilian submarines, etc.), and I'm proud of having my youngest son machinery Officer on French Navy BPC Tonnerre

- I was born in Paris and share my life between there and my country home 2 miles from Omaha beach in Normandy : very clearly HMS Rodney was heard from here firing its 16 inches on D-Day. The house was the headquarters of a German artillery batallion and I heard many interesting stories from the previous owners ! My wife is half-English (the best half ?), and her late father (died last year aged 92) was in the Royal Navy, serving close from here, again on D-Day, on a minesweeper...

- I've been modelling all my life yet focus on big scale warships for some time : I just don't have the eyes and fingers for 1/700 or even 1/350 and I'm not short of room in a 3000 sq m home (fairly affordable here in rural France) ! Hence I'm lucky enough to have three separate workshops in the house : one with all dust and mess-producing machinery, and two for assembly and the like (one of them attached below, with another "fantasy ship" in progress on the workbench, this one some kind of personal tribute to the fast torpedo ships of WW1)

- I focus on static modelling although in the coming years I'm considering two more models to undertake : a fantasy aircraft carrier, and a working 1/10 S-Boote or ELCO 80

- my motivation is all about crispness of details, clean and straight lines : I don't bother about historical accuracy, going as far as creating my very own designs, the goal being enjoying myself (what else for a hobby ?) and producing nice looking models (hopefully). I always loved the style and conceptual architecture (design ?) of HMS Nelson/Rodney (mine is HMS Rodney : being French, Sir Nelson rings bad memories, a bit like Waterloo station) yet its dimensions and general arrangement are only the starting point for my "fantasy" approach. Not a "what if" either : I just leave my mind and fingers wandering round and building the things following the instant inspiration, even If I take care to keep things possible and realistic. Scale is right, all spaces and areas have proper access and ergonomic realism, and all details are inspired from "real" features seen on photos of actual ships. I love "picking" and replicating details and equipments I like from very different origins

- the model shown below is pure fantasy of course : it's meant to be some kind of fast cruiser, yet with all the delightful old-world mess of details lost today for well-known stealth purposes. I just like this purely anachronistic mix of modern profile and old-school detailing : yet the whole lot and philosophy is not very far off the Star Wars vessels except that I prefer to keep it in shape of sea-going ships... Again my choice and pleasure : my cup of tea is midway between fantasy and reality, spaceships being too far away into fantasyland...

I wanted to make this introduction as, for sure, my Rodney will not please everyone and I've been attacked as such on French forums (can't imagine what it would have been if I'd done it on a French ship as Richelieu or Jean-Bart !), thus my decision to stop posting on those : I just hope I will meet tolerance and understanding here, so please rivet counters - which I fully respect - look elsewhere or just consider that I'm French after all, and as such not fully responsible for such childish or deviant behaviours !

Cheers to all then and to any way of considering our favourite hobby : it's nothing more than a game and pleasure and can be enjoyed just the way we like ! I just intend my contribution to bring a view of an odd and alternative (French ?) way, and of course share hopefully friendly and funny comments !

And please apologise once and for all for my approximate treatment of English language : consider yourself lucky not to have to suffer the matching accent...

Next posts will be showing successive steps of building the 3 meters Rodney-lookalike, in progress for two years now.

I love the imagination that your fast cruiser demonstrates. If you don't have fun with your hobby, there is no reason to continue and I know how much fun you are having with designing such a ship. I look forward to seeing what your fantasy version of the Rodney looks like.

_________________
Mike Perry

Hi Mike,

I had a quick look to your post a few days ago and just didn't noticed that it was creative stuff as I do !

It's so much fun to see other people with similar goals, and even more with slightly different approaches : yours is more "scientific" as, with your very serious Navy background, you really think in "what if" engineering terms with something potentially realistic in the end.

Mine is clearly more "romantic" (French again...) and I'm not really "engineering" the stuff as you do : I'm just wandering around with bits and pieces and details I like to model and integrate. Hence don't expect too much from my fantasy Rodney : I don't work on it with improvement in mind, I just build a big, well detailed model inspired from Rodney. As example, all 20 mm guns will be replaced by 40 mm Bofors... because I bought them cheap from the trade at the right scale, and they look good and not out of place !

Not very serious then, but great fun nonetheless...

Amended: in case you want to pull those FlaK 18s on your real HMS Rodney build.
download/file.php?id=107239&mode=view

From sources, secondary armaments were

6 × 2 - 6-inch Mk XXII guns
6 × 1 - QF 4.7-inch Mk VIII anti-aircraft guns

8 × 1 - 2-pounder anti-aircraft guns


2 × 1 - 24.5-inch (622 mm) Mk I torpedo tubes
Also looks like 20mm Oerlikons were fitted at some point
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... ship,_1925)

This guy on Shapeways https://www.shapeways.com/shops/micro-m ... e+Navy&s=0

makes the single 6" guns, so perhaps he'd be interested in producing the double turrets?
https://www.shapeways.com/product/JDY57 ... d=64951812

He also does the 4.7 AA guns
https://www.shapeways.com/product/YDDDK ... d=63511903

and single 2pdr AA guns
https://www.shapeways.com/product/CCXH5 ... d=63950900

I'll bet he'd even work with you to get those torpedo tubs into production.

THis guy already offers quad 2lbr pompoms
https://www.shapeways.com/product/KCJL4 ... arketplace

His 72nd scale RN offerings
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dboats ... l+Navy&s=0

_________________
Current build logs -
1/72 110' Subchasers as Rum Runners
1/96 Japanese 'Steel Truck'
1/96 12cm pre-Dreadnaught deck gun
1/124 CS Privateer 'Beauregard'
1/124 CS Blockade Runners Pevensey & Ella Warley
1/192 scale whaler PEQUOD

Stephane,

No apologies necessary for your "treatment" of the English language, especially since we "native" English speakers treat it pretty poorly ourselves!

Just be glad you don't have to deal with our accents! I was raised in Y'all Land (the southern US) and had a hard time understanding the damned Yankees, especially those from Nujoisey, Nyerk City and Barston. But I had even more difficulty understanding the Brits, until I married one - then I had to learn. I still can't understand the Aussies.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Hi,

thanks for the friendly comments and informations : Shapeways is great yet... expensive, and my "artistic license" (you've been warned) allows me to use altogether very different kinds of weapons. Some of you will strongly protest for sure, but keep in mind that the Rodnet architecture is just an inspiration base for me !

Attached, some first photos of the hull construction (waterline) : a strong multiply backbone, all from almost given-for-free offcuts from DIY stores. I like this idea of doing something from waste material ! All other surfaces were made with 2mm and 5 mm ply, and yes, the 2mm ply had to be bought from a specialized modelling shop...

No problem then, except managing the 3 meters bit of wood and avoid banging it everywhere when moving it around !

Afterwards a lenghty process of planking it all over with 0,5 and 1mm card : access plugs and portholes were again made dead cheaply with riveting stuff bought online on Ebay sites.

All this work is almost two years old by now and I'll show further progress later on.

Enjoy yourself whatever the way !

Hi everybody,

a few more pics of work in progress, more than one year old by now : I just like to keep the story in the right order and it's some kind of amusement for me to have a second look at what has been done so far !

Again the same principle all over : cheap and sturdy, waterproofed ply structure underneath. I love plastic card for details and neat surfaces yet don't trust it the least for strength on the long term. I know a thing or two about plastic physics and soft plastics as styrene "flow" under load on the long term. Only PMMA (Polymethyl Metacrylate) is strong enough but unfortunately very hard and brittle to work with. Hence the compromise of the rough yet accurate, straight and true, wooden structure, dressed all over with non-stressed styrene panelling.

On a more personal note, I love the endless steps of "dressing" all these surfaces and panels afterwards, one after one : it's a bit like being a painter in front of the blank canvas, bringing out surfaces, details, etc.

The chimney structure starts with a section of PVC drainpipe (again for free in my backyard), sliced in half and later reunited with PMMA for strength.

The last photos shows when I've completely redone the original representation of the round blanking plates at the bottom of the hull : the initial use of aluminium rivets looked out of scale at the end, and I've replaced them all with roundels of 0.3 mm styrene.

Overall costs still around zero euros so far, and that's part of my - maybe doubtful - pleasure : spend endless hours transforming waste material into something I like !

Hello Spottier,
I am going to enjoy watching your build - you have a great workshop and the skills to match

Thanks Englishgunner !

I'm already following yours for sure, big scale and large models are our thing for sure !

Hi Staphane,
I've made 1/200 HMS Rodney.
I'll show your big Rodney.
Song.

_________________
Life is short model-warships is too many to make!!

Hi everybody,

one further step, again from some time ago, just to show the process and explain my "philosophy" of the thing...

My basic rules are :

1 - Again and again, as to avoid any comments on the matter, I'm working deliberately with ARTISTIC LICENCE, which means that HMS Rodney is just the framework for overall shapes and general layout, which I like. All details are made following my own inspiration, yet based on some kind of technical realism though : it's not a "fantasy ship" (see my other models for that). For example, I intend to show the Walrus and its catapult on turret C, with a colour scheme inspired from the 1945 pattern... at which time the Walrus is not anymore on the ship ! It's my own personal choice, and once again it's a hobby, so please respect my choice, as I deeply admire the "rivet counters" for their dedication to accuracy !

2 - I think it's very important (when scratchbuilding) to define the "standard" of refinement and detail of the model from the start, and then keep is consistent throughout : think overdetailed areas next to large bare surfaces without any surface animation, no good... What fascinates me on warships is the "visual animation" of all equipments and surfaces. In these first steps of detailing I so do a few attempts at detailing as to set up the right compromise between the degree of detail I'm expecting and... its spreading along a 3-meter model vs my life expectancy !

3 - It's very important for my satisfaction that everything is clean, neat, with dead straight and true surfaces, square angles, etc. I love the English term "crisp" that doesn't have real equivalence in French. Again these ships, except the hull, are built like a F117 stealth fighter all over, all clean and neat edges, and my pleasure is to try to replicate this perfect "edginess" that should be even more emphasized when reduced in scale.

4 - I try - yet not fully succeed on my opinion - to make an exact scale representation for realism, as can be seen on the professional models of the "Musée de la Marine" in Paris (which I regularly visit for more than 50 years now !) : handrails made from 1mm rod at 1/72 scale just don't work visually, and even the 0,5mm rods I use are a bit out of scale : I should use 0,3mm for real accuracy...

The pics below show a few steps of work in progress on the main tower, with first trials at "detailing standard" to be applied to the whole model afterwards. Again very basic materials to start with for structure (PVC drainpipes sections), and then various assortments of plastic card, brass rods, solder wire, and a few photoetched bits from the trade (wheels, hatches, etc.).

Hi everybody,

another step and a focus on a separate sub-assembly that I used as a bench test, again to define the "detail and finish standard" to be applied all over afterwards, name the chimney.

Moreover I love working on different sub-assemblies : chimney, turret, tower, etc. It helps greatly to avoid boredom, and brings intermediate satisfactions to see a nice component finished : it's the "model in the model" philosophy for me...

As usual for the chimney as for the rest (not 100% finished yet, some joints and corners in need of more care), general shape, volumes and equipment are faithful to HMS Rodney, but nothing is faithful in details : again, my own personal choice and pleasure (I think I need to repeat that one endlessly as to avoid comments regarding very approximate accuracy...).

Have a nice day and enjoy your hobby the way you like !

Hi,

just in case you were wondering why it takes so long to complete a 3 metres long HMS Rodney lookalike, this is just one pic (I know it should be in "completed projects") of my just almost finished Vosper Perkasa in 1/25 scale. I've always got at least two or three models in progress at the same time, which allows me to switch from one to another to avoid boredom...

As with HMS Rodney, 99% scratchbuilt and static, and the real Vosper Perkasa is just the base around which I left my inspiration wandering...

In the background is French escorteur Surcouf, completed 20 years ago, this one from a "New Maquettes" kit that French modellers will recognise for sure : this brand and kit must be around for more than 50 years now, and made me dream as a kid in the sixties !

Hi,

some good (?) progress lately, and now I'm back to actual work these last days. Not finished obviously but it's taking shape and looks a bit more like the real thing (still with artistic license though !).

The yellow parts are home-made resin castings, which helps for the numerous cases and cupboards that you can find everywhere on these ships. Secondary armament is from the trade, and again not faithful to reality : the 40mm Bofors replace the original 20mm Oerlikons but they don't look out of place for me and my philosophy of the model. Always possible to be replaced in the future anyway...

The two small vertical resin blocks that protrude on the outer sides are there to allow the full block to be tilted on its side without crushing what has already been done, and of course give a much better position for detailing these long sides. They will be knocked out before painting, of course.

The whole lot is made out of a dozen or so of sub-assemblies for easy work and painting later on.

As usual much use of raw materials and of course Evergreen profiles, probably the biggest expense until then !

The big round "mushroom" ventilators than you can find everywhere on these ships are made cheaply from different sized CHC screws, with the hexagon-shaped hole filled with polyester filler. A matching hole in the deck, a small ring of solder wire at the base for a neat joint and... done !

The base model for the Carley floats (before casting them is resin) is made out of a sliced curtains wooden ring of the right dimensions, then linked with sections of tube for a fitting shape.

A few photo-etched details from the trade or from the spare box from plastic kits.

Amazing work, so crisp and clear. Can I ask a novice question - what do you use to glue and how do you glue it so you don't get it everywhere. I only get a few minutes to quickly sit down and cut and put it together but I seem to get super glue everywhere!
cheers, Will

Hi Englishgunner,

nothing special : TAMIYA extrafluid liquid glue (green bottle) for anything plastic on plastic, and Loctite CA for everything else, plastic on wood, photo-etched details on plastic, resin castings on plastic, etc. Plastic liquid cement is really magical stuff as it's in fact solving and "soldering" the material, but you need fairly perfect joints between the parts because it obviously doesn't fill any gap. I use CA when any gap is remaining.

I probably use roughly the same quantity of both glues all along.

I just ordered different grades of CA for trial (more or less fluid or quick-setting), but that's more for the fun of it as I've been using standard Loctite for years without much complaint.

Cheers to the other side of the world !

Great work Spottier.

What we (me) are hungry for is little details of your technique.
For instance I made a little deck subassembly by drawing the plan on a thin sheet of cardboard (another cereal box killer), then using Elmer's white to glue it to two other thin sheets, pressing them between two boards with a heavy book on top, then trimming the excess with a utility knife (no fancy around my shop) when dried.

I make funnels by taping a couple rods or AA batteries together, wrapping glued cardboard around them, and using masking tape to hold them tight while they dry.

Like you I enjoy using waste material and doing concept builds rather than straight replica builds.

You are probably a very busy fellow but if you have time please share your basic techniques.

Hi from Omaha Beach,

as usual every year, the roads around have been fairly crowded with Jeeps, GMCs and other WWII vehicles gathered for D-Day anniversary... Always great fun to see them around : personally less convinced with the matching dressed drivers and passengers playing some kind of "wargame". I've got too much respect for all people who lost their lives here to wear uniforms and fake guns just for fun. My two sons are wearing the uniform in real life (one as "Gendarme", the other one as French Navy Officer), so maybe that's part of my opinion as well !

Something else now, the three main turrets and some details about their building technique.

As usual, a very basic and rough ply structural frame, just to be a lasting support for the plastic card exterior surfaces. The first photo shows some of it still visible at the front. Note that the slightly angled rooftop is shown : I just cut slightly the plastic sheet, broke it along the line without shearing both parts (hence a clean joint between both surfaces). Afterwards I pressed the whole part against small "blobs" of Sikaflex polyurethane filler as to give support to the plastic : a central 3mm plastic "backbone" stripe provided the required angle (very shallow yet clearly visible).

The front rounded angles were then made from a piece of plastic 1mm sheet (as the whole turret skins) with several light cuts to provide the necessary flexibility without breaking it into small parts that would have been difficult to manage. Filler and sandpaper are then used for a smooth and rounded surface.

Detailing is shown afterwards, small brass nails for the hefty rivets, plastic stripes, resin, etc. as usual...

I don't have access to a lathe and machining skills, and I don't want to show the guns as tubular items without any taper : this really looks ugly and unrealistic on my opinion... After investigating several options and wandering in DIY shops, I suddenly realised that brushes wooden sticks would do the trick nicely provided I could find the right sections and taper rate ! Hence more wandering in the shops with dimensions in hand, and... bingo ! A size 16 brush, part of a cheap set of three assorted sizes (3,50 €) gives the right dimensions within 1mm ! Just had to find nine of them (four in the shop, the other five through Amazon), and, as a bonus, I've now got 18 spare brushes (the other two sizes of the sets) for various purposes... or smaller guns !

I really find some kind of - admittedly dubious - pleasure through these small tricks and search, but I'm sure I'm not alone...

Enjoy your hobby the way you like !

I would make torpedoes from nails that I filed polished and painted, and guests found them fascinating.
This led me to trying nails for naval rifles - a leap forward in artillery production was the discovery that turning the gun barrel rather than the boring tool produced a bore that was centered and true, and didn't blow the gun crews to bits.
Using my benchtop drill press I spun the nail down on to the drill bit, which was secured by a fixture made of wood and flat steel stock (also made with the drill press).
My mini lathe gathered dust.
I limited it to single mount turrets to avoid consistency problems but they were miniature works of art, simply made, that delighted my guests.

I once stood by Yokosuka harbor imagining the Combined Fleet riding at anchor there - hope I last long enough to see Normandy someday.

Anthony

Hi everybody,

a temporary stop now, just to avoid getting bored by the thing ! Don't know yet what will be coming next, maybe a plastic kit from the stash...

The main tower is almost finished, you can see the main mast added, and of course a lick of paint (Tamiya spraycans if you want to know : best for these big parts) in different shades of grey to bring contrast and interest. The real thing was also painted as such along the years, and maybe the mast will be painted black later on...

The photo with the whole workbench shows the size of the sub-assembly, remember it's 1/72, hence a quite large chunk of wood, plastic and metal ! Still my deepest respect for you guys working in 1/700 scale : I'm just not equipped with adequate eyes nor fingers...

I brought the whole lot on the third floor where is the "hull workshop", and couldn't resist an intermediate glance at the whole beast, as it starts now to look like a model warship...