The Ship Model Forum

... and they managed in those pre-laser days

Don't know, how it was really done, but then they would have probably rigged a boring-bar of nearly the diameter of the shaft, coupled to the engine shaft, checked optically with a sort of theodolite the alignement against markers at the end of the bar. There then probably would have been a travelling steel-holder, the movement of which is coupled to the rotation of the boring-bar to give a defined longitudinal feed.

To avoid this boring operation, also Babbit-bearings were used: the propeller-shaft was carefully aligned, passing through a cast-iron bearing housing. The shaft then would be covered in graphite as a releasing agent at the place of the bearing and liquid white-metal was poured into the housing. In this way, the bearing would be perfectly aligned.

Still, manipulating these bits of pieces that may weigh several tons is not so easy ...

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Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Pascal,

Once again, you're producing a very nice and detailed model - excellent work!! Whether I say it or not, your parts are exquisite in their high accuracy and detail - fascinating to see, etc.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

It was as you explained, the bearing was precisely aligned in its housing, then resin was used to seal it in the correct position.

Note that when aligning the bearing in the dry dock, the ship is placed on tins, a correction is applied to some ships so that once afloat everything is well aligned.

A rare movie, january 1929, Olympic at the dry dock in maintenance, January 1929, removal of the propeller shaft.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Thanks Hank

Maybe with the new DLP printer Anycubic Photon Ultra that I pre-ordered for Christmas, we will see a further improvement in the accuracy of the parts.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/an ... term=ultra

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Today's progress:

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Drawing of the "upside down tureen" of the rear emergency compass.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Drawing of the manual fire pump on the foredeck, it was also used to wash the deck (Washing horse, french expression..).

I finally found what it was thanks to the plan. I don't have the exact shape, so I interpreted a bit.



Seawater and fresh water circuits:

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

I have just printed the fire pump and the back-up compass.

I started the drawing of the poop deck.

It's a new way for me: I finish the physical hull and I start the drawing of the boat.

There's a good reason for this: to assemble the half-hulls, I have to sand the two sides that are glued together, and of course the castle housing in the main deck may have shortened longitudinally.

I have to measure this new length on the model, adapting the length of the boat drawing so that the fitting is perfect. I will even make a printout of the lower castle sketch to make sure it fits perfectly, I also have to take into account that the printer will make this piece 0.3 mm larger in all 3 dimensions, I reduce the castle walls accordingly, a headache that deserves some time.

The sketch of the poop deck, the camber and sheer in sight! 










The fire pump and compass.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Back after a few days of vacations under the sun.

Today, I made some progress on the design of the castle, I also printed the base of the castle to test the real dimensions to know how much to remove in length for its final printing when the design will be finished.

For the widths, it's perfect anyway. I had removed 0.3 mm on the design on each side. It fits perfectly.







The test piece printed today. I use it as a template.


 

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

The plethora of small supports reminds me of a raft of dried Ramen Noodles! Hydrograaf is coming out quite nicely!

Regards! Tom

Drawing the openings, the doors.

I'll have to draw some interior furniture because of the large openings.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

I added a few details, the handrails, the Japy type pump, plus a lot of little structural stuff that was almost invisible, it took me all day.











The famous French Japy pumps:

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

I can very well imagine the amount of work - still, in the end you will arrive probably faster at (multiple) finished parts with 3D-printing than by hand-work.

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Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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When I see the way you work and the time you spend on it, I am in awe, it's high-flying traditional microsurgery. I like to work with my lathe as well, but I don't do it as small, I make parts for my 1:1 scale collection cars in aluminium or bronze.

Sometimes I reuse a design that suits me and modify it to best suit the piece I am making.

The advantage of 3D, as well as computer technology in general, is that I don't have to make several copies of a part, a copy and paste is enough, making 30 identical guns in a repetitive way can be very demotivating in the end, at least for me.

In fact the finished product is not the main goal when you spend a lot of time on it, it's the design and construction that is the most exciting in my opinion. This philosophy also allows you to keep your motivation throughout the project, demotivation is the enemy to fight, but working on 2 or 3 projects can help.

Once finished, the ship escapes us a bit, although it is very nice to look at it from time to time, at least to evaluate our progress in design and construction in general compared to the current project and to do better by eliminating the less good, less efficient design or assembly solutions.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

We all have different motives and enjoyments in building our ship models. I am somewhat new to the 3D printing world, as my skills have developed I have finally begun, within the limitations of the materials to better the traditional methods I was able to achieve. My hat is removed in salute to some traditional workers such as Song and EJ Foeth, both who have hand constructed long lengths of stud link chain in variously wood and brass. For my Alaska Hank Strub generously provided me with the advanced parts for the light AA not used on his Vietnam Era New Jersey. It took forever to assemble these little devils, but they certainly looked OK. After having produced my own 3D Bofors Quads and Orlikons for the APA, I experimented with reducing these to 1:192. To great surprise they were quite good and I replaced the whole bunch on the ship. In this case, not really necessary, but a somewhat satisfying exploration of technique.

I also have a lathe, but certainly not capable of the micro work! Used as with Pascal for parts for 1:1 Autos and redoing the crown on a damaged rifle barrel. I did turn the upper masts on the APA with it, from Aluminum, but that's close to my model work with it. I did do some barrels with it when I was resin casting and some oil drums for the APA.

In theory we should all arrive at the same item despite variation in materials and technique, but we don't, as yet.

Regards to All! Tom

I think we all agree that the road is what give the main satisfaction, to overcome technical (or indeed computer-modelling) problems and to push the technology and our own capabilities to the limit.

For certain parts in my project, I think, 3D-printing would have rendered much better results than what I managed to do with conventional technology. I am a bit divided: I like the results of 3D-printing (when well-done), but as long as I have to spend professionally my day in front of the computer, I don't want to spend too much of my free time in front of it ... I also just like the haptic experience of working with a lathe or a milling machine. I think, once I am retired in a few years time, I will combine the two techniques to complement each other.

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Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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Indeed! Working with our hands can be very satisfying and stress relieving. I spend a lot of time in the Summer preparing for a shooting competition, pistol and rifle, the physical concentration and body precision take one into a different mind set. Admiral Nimitz during the war would spend time at a shooting range he had constructed at CINCPAC Headquarters to relieve stress. Admiral Willis Lee was also a national Pistol Champion. Both men did very well under considerable stress.

So far I still find considerable satisfaction in assembling some of the rather tiny parts shipboard. But then I am adding small components to a mostly traditionally built model. I am enjoying seeing the different methods of problem solving, we don't all have to be the same in the name of diversity!

Cheers: Tom

Small progress of the day.

I put some glass on the big portholes, just for fun. I drew the chimney, its base, the skylights and the davits.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Beginning of the drawing of the bridge, nothing to finish.

It's not so simple because of the mouldings of the outside walls, the different angles, etc. Thanks to Bromure again for one of the pictures that allowed me to not navigate in the fog.

Of course, it is necessary to sort out what exists today and what was in 1910. It is therefore necessary to constantly compare the photos of the time, of today and the plan of 1910 which remains the basis of the project. Because it is likely that this wooden footbridge has been replaced several times since more than a century. So the wooden panels differ a little from the original plans.

But the important thing is to keep the spirit.

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Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

She's getting complete in a lovely way! But those wood panelling details of the brodge will be a lot of work for sure.

Btw: did she carry any boats? Probably yes. On the deck plans I see a 'vlet' 0f 6.05m and a 'kleine jol' of 5.25m length. These might have been particular for the hydrographic survey task. There is an extensive section on boats in the National Archive drawings website, there you might find the plans of these particuler boats.

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023