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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:26 pm 
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As another sideline 3D design/print project, I began work on the old U.S.N. Mk. 2 1.10 Inch Quad Anti-Air Gun Mount and its accompanying gun director, Mk. 44. Once again, the basis for this project will be the 1945 U. S. Navy Turret & Mount Catalog cut sheet (Pg. 16) and any other drawings/photos that I can find to support the design. While there are available photos of the mount & director online, detailed drawings of the Mk. 44 I haven't located. Perhaps at NARA II, but that's just a guess. I recently discovered that both Veteran Models & Bunker Studio are producing 3D printed versions of this mount & gun director. Both are different and my guess is that they either don't have the actual drawings or have taken obvious liberties with the design in order to make a successful print. At scales of 1/350 and 1/200 it's simply impossible to create a "perfect" copy of the actual item. As I don't work in those scales, I do have a bit more ability to try to get this as correct as possible. After reviewing several photos of the gun mount on various ships, I've come to the conclusion that there were a couple different variations of the mount (there were Mods 2-6) and these variations have more to do with the ancillary equipment on the mount (sight setter/training gear) than the actual gun & chassis.

NOTE - FORUM TROLLS are not welcome on this thread and will not be replied to.

I began the design on both items a couple weeks ago and was able to get a couple successful prints of the Mk. 44 Gun Director last week. At this point I will make a comment that this is my first edition, and it may get changed.

Here is a design shot of the Mk. 44 director, followed by the slicing software rendition. I haven't taken photos of the printed part yet as I haven't removed supports or primed it yet -
Attachment:
Mk. 44 Gun Director_1.JPG
Mk. 44 Gun Director_1.JPG [ 57.37 KiB | Viewed 1307 times ]

Attachment:
Mk. 44 Gun Director_4.JPG
Mk. 44 Gun Director_4.JPG [ 41.98 KiB | Viewed 1307 times ]


With only two not exactly pristine illustrations of this item, I guesstimated at the size based on the drawing of the Quad Mount, so this is somewhat "iffy" at this stage. I had also begun design on the gun mount itself and as this is certainly more involved and complex than either the 5" dual gun mount or the Mk. 44 director, I have worked on this off/on for the last week or so when spare time pops up. Retired guys are ALWAYS busy! :thinking: :doh_1:

Here is a picture of the work I've done on the upper equipment that is now located in a separate design file - this was done as the original design file for the gun mount was getting rather large and beginning to slow the CPU down.
Attachment:
1.1 in Ancillary Equipment_1.JPG
1.1 in Ancillary Equipment_1.JPG [ 57.56 KiB | Viewed 1307 times ]


So, this worked out well and I had moved this work to the new file but this evening I did something to the original file to cause a fatal save error. So, I created a 3rd file for the gun mount and began moving parts to this file and have just about got everything moved at this point. Some items are still "surfaces" and will need to be modified to "solids" but at least they copied and I only lost about 15 minutes of actual parts - which is minor in the scheme of things :thumbs_up_1:

So, at this point the gun mount looks like this, well....I should say it DID look like this last night -
Attachment:
1.1 in Mount Progress_3.JPG
1.1 in Mount Progress_3.JPG [ 49.55 KiB | Viewed 1307 times ]

Attachment:
1.1 in Mount Progress_2.JPG
1.1 in Mount Progress_2.JPG [ 42.39 KiB | Viewed 1307 times ]


So, this little project is quite interesting and complex - but something that is intriguing to see if I can do as well as others have done. I might add that the 1/200 scale parts that Bunker Studio has pictured in their advertisement are quite detailed and well designed for such tiny parts. I think my final version will be a variation of what is currently offered commercially.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:47 am 
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Hank:

An interesting little side project, much like the many mini models I did of vehicles for the LSM. Each it's own fun little job.

a lot of pieces and parts, I can hear the computer groaning with indigestion!

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:56 pm 
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Fliger747 wrote:
Hank:
An interesting little side project, much like the many mini models I did of vehicles for the LSM. Each it's own fun little job.
a lot of pieces and parts, I can hear the computer groaning with indigestion!
Cheers: Tom


Tom,
Yes, the CPU was heating up!!! Now almost back to where I left off a day ago. This brief interlude gave me a chance to correct a few items, and generally check over what I've done to date. I may further separate the guns themselves from the mount & chassis and move them to a separate design file - haven't decided. It would make things a bit easier to work on.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 8:35 am 
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Back to working on the 2nd Edition of the Mk. 44 Gun Director. This is a very complex piece of equipment and the two products available commercially I don't believe come anywhere close to being correct. The two photos I have to work from are very difficult to discern as to exactly how this all fits together, so my current modifications will also be somewhat "conjecture" in appearance. I've got this so far on 2nd Edition -
Attachment:
Mk. 44 Gun Director_2nd Edition_1.JPG
Mk. 44 Gun Director_2nd Edition_1.JPG [ 68.18 KiB | Viewed 1233 times ]

Perhaps another day or so of design to get this to where it can be test printed to see what it looks like. Again, not an accurate representation, but a closer one hopefully!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:11 pm 
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Hank. That’s an issue with the drawings is you really can’t tell the shape of many parts. Those 3 d drawings in manuals are good for that but not dimensions.

Good work so far! Tom


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:33 pm 
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Good job! :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:37 pm 
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Dunno if you saw these pics over on Navsource: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57mk.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:45 pm 
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Tom, Pascal -

Thanks so much to you both!! Yes, documentation and visual evidence is key to making things out of thin air (or in this case, resin.... :doh_1: )

I've also been working a bit on the STODDARD stacks in between working on these two designs. First possible frost tomorrow a.m. so getting the shop space heater going tonight on low to try to keep a bit of warmth for tomorrow.

This gun director will need to be simplified quite a bit in order to get something reasonable as an end result.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:29 am 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
Dunno if you saw these pics over on Navsource: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57mk.htm


Martin,
Thanks for the reply & comment!! YES!!! That photo and its accompanying second view I have downloaded and am using as reference. At this point I have printed one further edition and will do another this morning because I broke a couple parts on the original print. Here is my latest version -
Attachment:
Mk. 44 Gun Director_2nd Edition_2.JPG
Mk. 44 Gun Director_2nd Edition_2.JPG [ 70.2 KiB | Viewed 1168 times ]

Attachment:
Mk. 44 Gun Director_2nd Edition_3.JPG
Mk. 44 Gun Director_2nd Edition_3.JPG [ 77.3 KiB | Viewed 1168 times ]

Again, without complete dimensions and further photo backup, this will be a "stylized" version of this equipment. However, I think it's "as accurate" as the versions being offered commercially as neither of them appear to be identical.

Once I have the gun mount finished, I'm thinking of something in the way of a display similar to the fantail photo of these items as installed on USS ASTORIA.

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:00 pm 
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Over the last few days I've printed 2 sets of the 2nd edition of this, one set that was usable. So, one of the two pieces has been cleaned up & painted -
Attachment:
Resized_20221022_134543.jpeg
Resized_20221022_134543.jpeg [ 84.68 KiB | Viewed 1127 times ]

Attachment:
Resized_20221022_134532.jpeg
Resized_20221022_134532.jpeg [ 82.23 KiB | Viewed 1127 times ]

The color scheme based on the photo of this director installed in USS PHILADELPIA (CA-41). A bit of touch up to do, but otherwise completed. The 2nd unit has not been cleaned up or painted as yet. Probably try to do that this weekend, as well.

Still working on the 1.1" gun mount design as this is quite a mix of complex parts to be designed and fitted into one complete unit.

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:54 pm 
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Back to working on the gun mount & gun assemblies (I had separated these into 3 different files to make it easier to work on individual parts) tonight and have the 4 gun assemblies about ready to run a test print -
Attachment:
1.1 in Mk. Gun Assembly_1.JPG
1.1 in Mk. Gun Assembly_1.JPG [ 35.03 KiB | Viewed 1079 times ]

These include the rather complex cooling lines & piping that took a while to get designed. I've noticed in quite a few photos from different ships that the lines were not all identical in their layout and as such there is some room to play around with this arrangement. This also allows for some simplification in how this all connects. Trying to do this exactly as the originals were probably piped, is almost impossible to do with the available information.

Now working back on the mount chassis to get it to where I can add the upper elevation/training apparatus & parts (also in a 3rd design file for simplicity). A slow, but logical way to get the entire mount to come out and fit together. I do want the gun assemblies to be able to elevate so this was one of the motivating factors in getting it completed in its own design file.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:06 am 
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Hank:

Coming along nicely! Perhaps I scanned over it, but what scale are you doing your prints at?

Regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:42 am 
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Fliger747 wrote:
Hank: Coming along nicely! Perhaps I scanned over it, but what scale are you doing your prints at?
Regards: Tom


Tom,

Thanks! I appreciate the comment!! Once again, I'm using the Mount & Turret Catalog cut sheet for this gun mount (pg. 16) and dimensioning it off that drawing. So, this works out to be approx. 1/50th scale - doesn't come out exactly. The Mk. 49 is based loosely on eyeballing the relative sizes of the two items in photos and then "guesstimating" how large to make the base plate & base ring.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:29 am 
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Hank,

For a lot of things I have used "photoguesstimation" to determine size. One handy vertical size reference is pipe railing with three horizontal pipes. Standard Navy railing in the 1930s and 1940s had 12 inch spacing between the top three rails with 15 inch below the lowest rail (12-12-15). However ships often had 3 inch high coamings around the deck edges, so photos show a 12 inch gap between the lower rail and the top of the coaming.

Occasionally you find two pipe railing or some other non-standard type so all bets are off. And you do have to allow for perspective distortions.

Horizontal size references are more difficult to find.

Phil

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 7:53 am 
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That's a really well done model.

Question - do you use DSM to test articulation of the guns in the cradle/mount? IE, do you see if it will elevate properly on the pivot point using software tools, or do you print an example and do a physical fit/function test for that sort of thing?

I'm a neophyte with DSM and am still learning a lot of aspects to it - but I see that there appears to be the ability to test 'mechanical' aspects like that, but I'm not sure how yet.

Great work!

NS

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:37 am 
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Phil - Thanks for the pipe railing refs. - always good to have that sort of info on hand when making visual "guesstimations", etc.

NS - Thanks for the nice comment!! Much appreciated! This is quite a complex design and with very little actual detailed info to go on, I'm surprised that it's turned out as well as it has so far. When I did the original layout, everything was in one design file; I've since moved things into separate files and now have 4 files. I laid the items out in the original file and once drawn up to an actual "part", moved them for detailing into their own file.

So, to answer your question - the gun assemblies were laid out exactly where they should be within the framwork of the mount chassis and THEN moved into a new file for detailing. This way the center of the pins on either side that hold the guns in place are the same centers that the pin holes have on the chassis. I highlighted the entire gun assembly and then from the side view rotated it to make sure it would do exactly that and then made the move. By "copy/paste" you are in essence moving from one file to another in the SAME design location. Always leave the part in the new file where it appears and DON'T MOVE IT - you can work, rotate, spin, whatever from that location in the new file. If you do move the objects, then you will need to re-orient it back in the original file if that were necessary to do so.

I am now printing the gun assemblies for the 3rd time with minor modifications on each print run due to items not printing. So, this morning's print will hopefully come out complete and I can then return to the mount chassis design.
Attachment:
1.1 in Mk. 2 Gun Assembly_2.JPG
1.1 in Mk. 2 Gun Assembly_2.JPG [ 55.18 KiB | Viewed 1017 times ]



Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:24 pm 
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I've printed a couple of the last modified gun assemblies and have one fairly well (but not completely) cleaned up:
Attachment:
Gun Assembly_2.jpeg
Gun Assembly_2.jpeg [ 149.62 KiB | Viewed 991 times ]

A second assembly is now waiting to be de-supported and cleaned up. I'll hold off any painting until I finish the mount chassis and see if the two fit together - that's still an open question at this point!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:18 pm 
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Hank:

Will be interesting to see if these can be printed successfully in smaller scale often used by modelers!

Best regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:45 am 
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I'm thinking that this gun mount is going to need a lot of work on it before being really usable, at any scale. In addition, orientation for printing is another consideration after seeing how these early prints have turned out. Always an experiment.

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:46 am 
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I am more than likely going to halt design work at this point until I can come up with more useable, readable, and accurate drawings of this gun mount - I can't see moving forward and accomplishing my goals with the limited info I have to work with - so, this project will take a pause....!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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