The Ship Model Forum

Getting bored while revising & printing the main deck lifelines & stanchions for my STODDARD build, I turned once again to creating a 3D design and printing of a proposed dual 5"-54 Gun Mount as envisioned for the never-built MONTANA class battleships. Again, as with my other scaled up gun mount designs, this one is also Not To Scale (NTS), but sized according to the illustration of the Single 5"-54 Gun Mount as appears in the USN Gun Mount & Turret Cat., OP-1112, 1945, pg 462. As for length to width dimensioning of the mount, I used the plan view of MONTANA as shown in Battleships (Garzke & Dulin), pg. 178. Also, photos available of the single 5"-54 mount that was removed from one of the MIDWAY class carriers and set up for testing at White Sands, NM provided smaller details that the illustration did not show. I then took a bit of artistic license + knowledge of mechanical fittings, etc. to come up with my version of what could have been the secondary armament for this class of battleship.

Printing is in progress and there are 4 main parts - mount base ring, mount floor, mount body, and dual gun barrel assembly. So, here are a couple design shots of what this mount looks like -




When (and if ) I get successfully printed parts, I'll post the completed model. As always, this is not a science, but a rather elementary art at this stage of the game!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

I've printed out the 4 mount parts - 2 came out very nicely, 2 had problems... but, that's to be expected. I've now added the Pointer & Trainers Telescope Housings and made a couple other modifications to the mount. The problem with the first mount body printing was how it was oriented. This 2nd print will be using heavy supports at 0° (no angling) as the 1st print came out with botched lower rear edges.

I've also now finished the design for the display base and it has been cut into halves in order to print. The entire unit looks like this -

As I mentioned in my opening post, this is an interpretation of what the 01 Level Mount Foundation "may have" looked like on MONTANA. This will be mounted on decking to represent the main deck below.

I've also been working a bit on more lifeline/stanchions for STODDARD when the mood struck....

We're now waiting for possible wintery stuff but my money is on a cold, but clear day....

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Well, the cold weather was just that - freezing, but no snow, etc.

So, I've now got the final version of the mount printed and am asemblying the whole thing and painting, etc. Here's a composite of the final mount alone -

After reviewing some of the photos of the single mount on CVA-43, I realized that I had a couple items to modify/remove/add to make this somewhat more realistic.

The display base is in assembly, as well - the two halves came out ok, but did have some minor issues which I'm repairing on the fly. I hope to have things wrapped up on this shortly and will post further photos appropriately!

Hank

My next mini-project will be a 1/96 or thereabouts (1/100 ) scale model of the Mk. 38 Fire Control Director & Mk. 13 RADAR.

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Unusual positioning of the mount Captain's hatch (hatches?). I've never been inside one of these but wit the greater weight of the shells I'd expect a more sophisticated and involved ammunition handling train.

The photos you sent me of your print progress was quite convincing!

Tom

Tom,

I've got everything reprinted (2nd edition) and ready to be cleaned, painted, and assembled. The 1st edition had issues and I didn't want to make a display piece that was 2nd rate. So, I'll be working on this and the Mk. 38 rangefinder mini-project along with further STODDARD work.

I used the existing drawings for the single 5"-54 mount as deployed on the MIDWAYs and modifyed them as I've already discussed. The Mount Captn's hatch is in a rather midway location, which does differ from the dual 5"-38 mount arrangement.

I should have photos soon.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

So, here is the 2nd edition mount body with modifications here & there. It is drying overnight from the deck gray spraying this evening. The floor fits rather well this time around with little sanding, etc. I've got the other parts in the painting stage and hope to have things ready for assembly shortly -



The 2nd edition of the display base is also getting painted and also fit better with a few necessary changes. No pix of it right now!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank,

As I understand it, this mount was never actually built. This is your interpretation of what it might have looked like. Right?

Like Tom, I think the mount Captain's hatch position is odd. It places him right over the starboard gun mechanism. When the gun is lowered to it's lowest depression it would be right under his feet. To get into the hatch he would have to climb over the gun.

It was normal to position the mount/turret Captain/Officers station behind the gun mechanisms. In the 5"/38 mounts the Mount Captain was positioned behind the guns, and in the twin mounts he was between the shell casing chutes.

Do you know of any mounts where the Mount Captain's position was not at the rear and on the center line of the mount?

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Phil,

Thanks for checking this out! First, YES- my mount design is a "conceptual" version based on the drawings of the actual single barrel 5"-54, Mk. 39 that was installed on the MIDWAY class CVs in 1945. I agree with your comments regarding the position of the Mount Captain's hatch/hood but I based this on the location of the existing mount. Here is the 1945 U.S. Navy Mount & Turret catalog drawing of the single mount -

And here are the accompanying interior illustrations (side/top) of the mount -


It would appear that the location was situated ahead of the ventilating motor and behind the trainer's station on the stbd side.
So, beyond that I can't explain why it was designed that way. I simply expanded the width and made a couple individual mods to the location & so forth of access doors, etc. Again, this is my interpretation and thus no "right or wrong" way to explain how it would be done. Perhaps given some thought about a 2-gun mount, one could come up with a different interior arrangement from this. There is one of these singlel mounts situated at White Sands N.M. at the Army artillery range. Any others remaining in existance I'm not aware of - very well could be. Here's a shot of CORAL SEA's port side in the early 1950's -



Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank,

Your effort is conceptual and no known plans of the twin mount are available (but quite likely did exist since development started during WWII, but was never finalized and may have been trash canned or is sitting in a BuShips files somewhere). But, I would have to agree with others, that I think the Gun Captain's hatch should logically be on the centerline between the two 5-in guns. The hatch on the single mounts was made off-set to be out of the way of the gun breech and ejector chutes. If you look at photos of the MIDWAY class carriers, the Gun Captain's hatch is on the left side for "Forward stowed" 5-in mounts and on the right side on "Aft stowed" 5-in mounts. In effect a mirror image installation so that the Gun Captain's hatch was "outside" under the overhanging flight deck.

The 5-in/38 mounts were designed based on common (left and right) single mounts mated for twin mounts and explains why there are "left and right" single mounts on destroyers. So I'm guessing that similar arrangements may have been used in designing these new twin mounts.

Rick,

Thanks also for your input regarding the location of the mt. captn's hatch. I'll have to give some thought about that as I can see both locations as viable although when you consider moving the stbd gun closer to the side, it would leave little space for the hatch to remain in it's current location on the single mount.

Since my latest extremely nice 2nd edition will now be obsolete even before the paint dries, I may have to bring you up on "delay of design" charges at Capitan's Mast!!

Here's what it will look like (also moved the hatch back slightly, as well -

Yes, I do think you, Phil, and Tom have all made a good point here and I thank you for bringing this to my attention.

The design team out back in the model shop have now been put on short rations for dereliction of duty.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank,

I see where you were coming from - widening the single mount for two guns.

Since this rework is caused by a change of plans you should renegotiate the contract.

Everything else looks good.

Just curious - do you have plans for the 5"/54 gun?

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Phil,

Yes, simply widening the existing single mount was the original idea - based on the only drawings available which are of the single gun mount. I know of no dual gun drawings unless somewhere in the bowels of NARA II a set of plans is gathering dust. So, this concept was entirely my concoction.

I looked over all the usual references to the MONTANA class both on my bookshelf and online (drawings, illustrations, etc.) and came up with the size based on what I was seeing and then scaled the model accordingly - the display is NTS, but the mount is proportionally like the single gun mount, only widened.

The new mount body is currently printing and will finish around 5pm today. Thanks for the nice feedback and comments, it is appreciated.

Contract negotiations with the deadbeat design team are underway.... floggings may randomly occur until an agreement is reached!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank et al:

Such may have beens are interesting exercises and often involve much education and research to work out a sensible design. Information about the internal arrangements and especially the shell handling equipment would assist in seeing what the limits of possibilities were. Typically everything shipboard gets saved into some space with only inches available for different arrangement!

Interesting project! Regards: Tom

Yes, Tom - it has been an interesting project. So, after some redesigning and printing, the end result is finalized -



The mount is located over a 5" Upper Handling Room on the 01 Level on a "conceptual" MONTANA class BB.

Now, on to finish my Mk. 38 Rangefinder w/Mk. 13 RADAR which is my next mini-project.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Nice work!

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Superb!

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Phil, Pascal -

Thanks! Much appreciated commentary. And I also appreciate the input from Phil, Rick E. Davis, and Tom - always nice to have constructive comments while working on the design of these parts - esp. something that never existed!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Beautiful work and an outstanding display!

_________________
https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/

Agreed. Beautiful execution and display. And, very cool.

Inch High, Dan K. -

Thanks so much for your kind words - it was fun and frustrating at the same time - too bad we'll never see this gun produced, whatever the form may have taken. I think the reason this came out as well as it did was doing it in 3D design/printing - at least, that's my take on it.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48