The Ship Model Forum

A couple months back I was looking for another mini-project of shipboard equipment and while perusing the Tech. Ref. #1 USS NORTH CAROLINA (Randall S. Shoker), I was rather intrigued by the boat cranes that she carried amidships. While the real ship (a museum ship in Wilmington, NC since 1961) no longer has those cranes intact (only the kingpost and operating machinery remain, sealed up since decommissioning), I began to research what photos and drawings exist (short of making a trip to NARA!!) that may shed light on this area of the ship. Here is what this crane looked like during her early career -


I do know that the cranes were modified in their external appearances at a later point during the war, but photos from the period simply are not clear enough to correctly determine the exact layout of the lower/upper machinery levels at the base of the crane and the models I've seen built either from kits or scratchbuilt are IMHO, not correct. I have found one photo that does show the port crane's machinery area at the base of the crane, but this photo is not in focus and is somewhat curved and exact details are hard to determine. The drawings I have which came with that booklet mentioned above show the later version and my feelings are that this is a "guesstimate" as to the configuration by that draftsman, as well. I think that NARA does have microfilm of the class drawings (as built), but I'm not in a position to make a trip up there anytime soon for research. So, I'm somewhat guessing at the lower/upper machinery layout of this crane.

While researching this equipment, I was able to glean a lot of understanding about this crane from the available photos & drawings on NavSource regarding the boat cranes installed in the SDAK class battleships. However, those are not the same crane as NORTH CARLINA was equipped (similar, but different).

I've done quite a few 3D design files for this equipment and here are a few shots of my main components (machinery base, kingspost, boom, and outrigger. In addition, separate pulleys & pins, and associated gear have also been created -




There (as I mentioned above) other parts, but these are the main components. After my initial design in which I had one part which comprised the base plate (not shown), machinery flats, and kingpost, I ran a print and was disappointed in the results - the lower area was distorted and so this prompted me to separate items and I've now (after 3 print editions) come up with a final version which has printed well and is now in the assembly stage. Here is a photo of tonight's work -

Rigging this crane should also be quite an accomplishment as the photos don't really show how the various cables were run; this will be a "best guess" effort, as well!!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Getting started on rigging this crane - not an easy task, but I think the outcome will work -


May take a bit of very careful threading to get the rigging cables in place!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Beautiful crane! Beautiful print.

_________________
Pascal

•Battleship Bretagne 3D: https://vu.fr/FvCY
•SS Delphine 3D: https://vu.fr/NeuO
•SS Nomadic 3D: https://vu.fr/tAyL
•USS Nokomis 3D: https://vu.fr/kntC
•USS Pamanset 3D: https://vu.fr/jXGQ

Pasacal,
Thank you! Glad that this is working out. Rigging is a bit troublesome, but going out to the shop in a bit to work on it and see what I can get accomplished.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

So when are you gong to have enough parts to make doing the whole ship worthwhile? Looks great Hank!

Very interesting project! I've noticed that these shipboard cranes and derricks are (obviously) very complicated and specialized pieces of equipment -- and with a few exceptions they are not standardized across ships (the main exceptions obviously being the stern aircraft cranes aboard the cruisers and battleships -- and even these have variations).

I checked my copy of the Maryland Silver plan set for the North Carolina and Washington and unfortunately plans of the cranes are not included, so can feel free to cross that one off your list @Hank.

Cheers

Tom - Thanks, much appreciated. I don't know that that will happen but one can always consider

I appreciate the interest & comments, Ian - thanks! I do recall Maryland Silver Co., but never purchased anything from them and I can't recall if or who bought their inventory of drawings. You are correct in that each class of ship had its own boat crane designed for that particular class (there were no std. cranes and perhaps that's due to the constant changing of shipboard aircraft as time went on).

I have managed to get the lifting cables in place but still have a bit of cleanup and then will address the crane hook cables and their corresponding gear.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank,

What are you using for cables? I found that jewelry supplies at local "craft stores" carry several thicknesses of 5 and 7 strand "bead stringing wire" that makes perfect scale cables.

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

- Now you tell me!!!! LOL!!

I'm using some large dia. Bluejacket cotton thread that was not being used for anything else and seemed to fit the need. Using a slightly smaller dia. for the hook lifting cables. As for your suggestion, I will check the "bead stringing wire" out for future possibilities. Thanks for the input, however!!

Being a rainy day here, I may get this rigging completed and do some work on the hook lifting cables (also a bit tricky in trying to reeve those lines around the pulleys, etc.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Today was a busy day in the shop - I worked on this boat crane project as well as my .50 cal Browning MG project, and the Mk. 12 Antenna replacement project. I quit when it appeared that things might get destoyed rather than assembled. So, here is progress on the boat crane -


Note - Weights and hook sizes are fluid as these may be changed if further information becomes available. The lower machinery flat shape I based on the shape of the boat crane's deck on the
02 Level on the starboard side.

Due to running out of display space, these pictures aren't in the greatest of locale for photo purposes, but it will have to do for now! With the rigging and display base (no cube for this one!), I am working on a small 1/48 scaled group of crewmen (painting) that I plan to add to the mechanical flats (a couple, anyhow) and those should "finish" this project for now. It will remain a "work in progress" as I am not completely satisfied that the pulleys and cabling arrangement are correct - but, without further conclusive documentation to refer to, I will leave it as is until such time.

SUCH TIME - may be soon as I may be making a trip down to the ship to assist another local modeler with some restoration work on the 1/96 model of The Showboat that he built and donated some years ago. While there, I hope to find some time to talk with the curator re. several topics, one of which will be what actual photos they may have of the cranes that could lend some further details to their configuration and rigging, etc. For those of you who may have visited the ship in the past, this large-scale model used to adorn the Officer's Wardroom but was subsequently moved to the main building on site (its exact location I'm not sure of at present). I would also like to try to twist some arms and get a visit into one of the Main Battery Directors, but I seriously don't think that will happen....

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

A visit to a MK 38 director would be quite a treat if possible, but what was normal for a 22 year old Sailor 80 years ago may strain the flexibility of we old folks!

I agree with Dr Phil that the beading stranded cable is perfect in texture though a perfectionist would need to check out the number of strands and direction of the "lay". Advantage over thread is a hard steel like texture, no fuzzes! Of course flexibility could be an issue around the sheaves.

Tom

Tom,
You're probably correct, but one can hope - I think that the museum ship insurance underwriters won't allow visiting certain areas in any case. But I will ask.... And then throw a tantrum!!!

Perhaps on the 2nd round if new info is found I can then do the beading stranded cable in place of the thread. And a little revising of how all these cables were oriented will be in order, as well.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank,

When I visited the USS Little Rock CG-4 museum ship I first had a talk with the museum director to explain that I needed photos for my OK City CAD model. He told me to go wherever I wanted. So I did. He even had one of the staff open locked doors so I could visit spaces not normally open to the public.

They had removed all of the ladders to higher levels in the superstructure to prevent visitors from getting to levels that might not be safe.

But where there's a will there's a way ... I spent years climbing all over the Oklahoma City and there are ways to get higher up without ladders. I was carrying a camera bag and a briefcase with measuring tools and note pads, and these were cumbersome on some of the climbs. I recall one time I was hanging over a rail on about the O4 level to get a wider angle picture (I checked to be sure it was solid first) when one of the docents saw me. He had a fit, shouting to me to come down. Instead I continued my climb into the superstructure for more photos.

However, I hesitated at climbing the ladders to the top of the radar towers. These could be 50-60 feet and I had no idea if the ladders had been maintained over the years.

Contact the persons in charge of the ship and tell them what you need. It might open doors for you.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Phil,

Thanks - Yes! I DO intend to ask the curator as to what I can do and where I can go - the main problem with this trip is the time - my friend and I are going there mainly to do work on his model and I don't know how much "spare" time we'll have, but I intend to use every second to my advantage. I may even take my Nikon digital with me whether or not I get to use it.

So, we shall see....!

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Early this morning I did a couple hours of searching in the BB-55 museum website archives and DID find drawings re. the boat cranes. After contacting the curator, I did receive some preliminary copies of parts of the general arrangement drawing, which will allow me to begin making revisions to my model. Overall, I was fairly close in my design, but "close" is no cigar - I want this to be as accurate as possible, so this may be a longer project before all is said and done. That's fine - I enjoy doing the design, if not more than doing the actual assembly.

So, tonight after getting some revised parts on the printer underway for the Mk. 12 Antenna replacement, I have now begun revision work on parts for the crane. The museum sends their drawings out in digital media so I will then visit my local printer/scanner monger and get scaled drawings printed. The curator stated that this G.A. is a "huge" plan and I can believe her, the old Navy drawing system did create many extremely long drawings back in the day and this will be no exception. Can't wait to see when they'll be able to get this to me - they are currently going thru the same understaffing shortfalls that is being experienced throughout - I asked her to work it in when she could, that's only fair.

I'm seriously considering adding the two levels of engineering/equipment that are below the base of the crane (main deck/ 01 Level) in order to show the topping hoist & boat hoist equipment. That would require much more 3D design but may be worth it in the resulting display. I haven't made a decision on that yet.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Keep us posted on your request through the Battleship archives. I contacted them last summer for help with some drawings of the Mark 37 director and got one response before they went dark on me

Ian,

My honest guess is that as the curator mentioned to me, they are shorthanded and somehow your request got lost in the shuffle. It appears that they don't have a lot of drawings actually scanned for sending to the requesting public. It appears that only when there is a request is something scanned and then will appear on the archives page on their website. The curator has sent me 4 or 5 emails with attachments of portions of the G.A. that I have printed out on 11x17 paper. Since there is a couple dimensions of parts, I can then divide by 48 (or 24, or whatever), derive how large that should be, size the printout and then know how much to scale up/down in the design file to get my correctly scaled parts.

The G.A. for the boat crane is drawn at 3/8" = 1'-0" which is why this drawing is huge. But, having these portions to go by is enabling me to begin redesign and have a great degree of accuracy as to what was and wasn't there. I've found that my 1st edition is NOT so correct and have begun anew.

When and ifI get down there, I will ask about anything Mk. 37 wise and see what's available, etc.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Yep, that's what she told me as well and I fully understand being shortstaffed etc -- it wasn't an urgent priority so I didn't push it. It seems like they have to use a scanning service for the paper plans and documents which I know from experience to be a headache.

Looking fwd to the final result!

Ian,

That "final result" may be a while. My 1st version was w-a-y off, so this will be a total redesign. But, I see that as a challenge, not a roadblock. I've clarified my request to them, so we shall see what evolves on that end of things.

Hank

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Hank:

Despite a re design, it always goes so much faster and better as you have worked out most of the design and research issues!

Cheers: Tom