The Ship Model Forum

I will start a thread of a scratch build project of the Columbia River Bar Pilots Chinook pilot boat. I started the project about a year and a half ago. I was in the planning stage for the first year. I really started building in January. I started a blog at http://www.pilotboat.blogspot.com.

I have learned quite a lot from reading this board. Particularly on how to build a scratchbuilt hull. The hull of the Chinook was not scratchbuilt in the traditional sense.

I hired a naval architect to produce a 3D model in Rhino. I then sent this to a company I had an interest in which produced a mold on a 5 axis CNC machine. This was then sent to a professional model building company http://www.2scale.com where the hull was made.

I am trying all different techniques to build the boat. I am starting by modeling in Rhino, then building out of plastic or metal. I took a jewerly making class to develop my abilitiy to silver solder and my metalworking techniques.

I am also looking into modern rapid prototyping techniques to build certain parts I am having trouble with. I am looking into buying a Roland milling machine and am planning to use sterolithography.

I would welcome any comments or suggestions.

Tarsier

Here are some pictures of the actual boat:

I remember this build from a while ago.

That is one impressive router pictured. If you would like to do some of this on your own and save money try this.

http://www.alibre.com/ (Free CAD software.)
Create your own 3d drawing(s). Im still messing around with this but I like its features so far.

http://www.sheetcam.com/ (Free CAM software.)
This is for taking a CAD file and using it like a reference for generating a machine tool path. It helps to understand tooling and NC code if you want to use this..............Im a newbie so even I have trouble working this out.

Here are some options: Eye candy if nothing else to look at.

http://www.ajaxcnc.com/
http://www.centroidcnc.com/
http://www.kentechinc.com/
Centriod/AjaxCNC has a DFX-to-CNC software program available so you could get away from the expensive CAM software. Or Kentech has a whole set of software that can do the same. Look @ their KipwareM software.

Ive started the crazy idea of buying my own Knee type mill to use for automotive parts and shiphulls. I bought a manuel mill and started a retrofit but found out my old odd mill will not work for CNC. So then I looked around to buy a new maunuel mill to convert.........yikes not a cheap venture.

After talking to AJax about what I was planning they told me to look for a mill that was already factory made CNC. Find one with an old out dated controller or broken then simply update it with their system.

I found the perfect system to do this with for a very cheap price. The owner is moving to Florida and cannot take it with him. Nothing wrong with this mill at all. It is a mid to late 90's Millport that has an older controller but was hardly even used. I just put a $1250.00 down payment on this.

Sorry to say but your not in a cheap project. Neither am I.

Wish I never learned about this stuff...........Ignorance is sweet bliss.
Someone shoot me please.

Forgot to include these link(s).

http://www.millportmachines.com/
Millport now uses Centroid as a control for their VMC's. I dont know about your budget but look at the 5 axis head porting system. Eye Candy!

http://www.automationdirect.com/
Great place for parts. Check out the variable AC Drives.

http://www.use-enco.com/
Tooling. Cutters. Reasonable prices.

http://www.grizzly.com/
Grizzly Industrail. Maybe a better source for wood cutters.

http://www.microkinetics.com/
Micro Kinetics Corperation. Ceck out the kits they offer. I think they have something for routers if thats what you want to go with.

TommyL.

While at the beach - I have gotten snippets of time to model more-





I find that there are two reasons to model on the computer before producing the part. First and formost - to make sure everything looks right and fits together - it is easier to do trial and error on a computer rather than in actual material (measure twice, cut once). Second, I can use a computer controlled milling machine to cut the part (or at least this is the plan).

Here is the mast modeled:



Here is the finished (or almost finished product) - this took about 6 months:

Thats awsume.

TommyL

haha, i knew tommy would like this thread.

_________________
It's not who you are, but what you do that defines you.

Hi Tarsier The build on the mast is exceptional did you uses the CNC machine for the mast ?. A few questions have you started the hull? I note that the general design of the hull and superstructure is very similar to the Archer and Greyfox class of RN Patrol Boats. Both of these classes have diesel engines to two props. It seems that the pilot boat has water jets? ? Do you have a hard copy drawings of the hull? and what materials are you using? I look forward to any more details you may have! Thanks for posting
Dave Wooley

wow! I thought the mast was the actual one off of the boat, I was thinking what a great refference photo...

_________________
of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most
....I think the carpet monster got that too!

I didn't use any cnc for the mast. I made the computer model to make sure things would fit together and then did most of it in brass. I used regular solder which was a nightmare. I have since taken a jewelry making class and learned to silver solder. You use a torch and can have three levels of solder (hard, medium and easy) - they each have different melting temps. I wish I had learned it before I started on the mast. The bottom of the mast is made from styrene sheet.

A few of the antennas on the mast I made by turning the plastic bits on a mini lathe. It came out just ok.

I have some pictures of the hull at http://www.pilotboat.blogspot.com and http://www.pilotboathull.blogspot.com - The hull was done using the cnc machine and cad layout - then the fiberglas was laid by a company http://www.2scale.com - I wish I could have sent it to Lee Upshaw at scale shipyard instead of 2scale but that's how it goes.

I was going to use a blog for the build but I think I like http://www.modelwarships.com much better - that way you guys can give me tips or suggestions.

The acutal boat has dual water jets by Hamilton Jet. I am using waterjets from http://www.mhzusa.com - It doesn't come with great instructions so it is going to be tricky to install.

cripes...--that mast is very sharp modelmaking!

very very good!

JIM B

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....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com

more computer modeling - I want to work in the real world! not the virtual world. I am almost completed the top of the cabin. It appears that everything fits together.

I decided to try working in Lexan rather than styrene because it has better thermal properties. I took the suggestion of Kurt Greiner after reading about his build http://wmunderway.8m.com/gallery47/gallery47.htm

I bought the stuff below from http://www.rplastics.com/


Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 6.92 Choose sheet thickness = .010x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$6.92)

Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 11.54 Choose sheet thickness = .015x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$11.54)

Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 14.90 Choose sheet thickness = .020x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$14.90)

Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 20.00 Choose sheet thickness = .030x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$20.00)


Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 24.75 Choose sheet thickness = .040x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$24.75)

Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 26.08 Choose sheet thickness = .060x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$26.08)

Clear LEXAN Polycarbonate TUFFAK 1 38.72 Choose sheet thickness = .090x24x48
24x48 Sheet Clear Polycarbonate (+$38.72)


Once the Lexan comes, I can start actual construction on the top of the cabin. I should probably start working from the bottom - do the propulsion in the hull, the electronics, then the deck and then the house but it seems easier at this point to work from the top down - any suggestions would be most welcome!



Here is what I did along with a reference photo - the model and the photo are from the stern:

Hi Tarsier I see that you intend to use ploycarbonate for building up the superstructure. I've had a number of long disscussions with Kurt Grainer on the the same subject and although I've never had the chance to use it there are as you say many advantages over styrene. Question how will you work the Lexan, and what adhesive do you intend to use. Are you working directly from the CAD image with no paper drawing? Regarding building , engineering, electrics etc I have always considered it more of an advantage to complete all of this prior to the main construction. Then you know the model will work and good access provided for. What material do you intend to use for the deck, will it be Lexan . A really interesting project particulary your use of 3D and the materials in use.
Thanks for posting .
Dave Wooley

Hi David:

I have never worked with Lexan before - I really like styrene but figured I would try something different. From reading Kurt's site and reading on the internet, Lexan is much harder to work with than styrene. The trick from what I understand is to not melt it when cutting it. There are special sawblades made for Lexan and I will probably try a circular saw at a low speed. Kurt on his website uses a rotozip to cut out some of the shapes.

I should start from the bottom up. there are a couple of reasons why I'm not and niether of them are good. First there is a swim step in the back of the boat. I haven't though how I am going to build that yet. Second, the jet drives don't come with good instructions - I don't know how to hook up the water cooling elements for the motors either. I figure I would work on other parts of the boat until I have to start working on the propulsion system.

I will probably build the top of the cabin which will probably take another month or so (I am slow as a turtle). Then in September, I will probably have to tackle the propulsion system and swim step. I will probably start thinking about the swim step during my "down time" at the beach on the weekends.

Here is a picture of the swim step:



In terms of adhesive - from reading on the internet, CA is the best - I will probably use Poly Zap - http://zap.supergluecorp.com/pt22.html

Hi Tarsier In our model group/society I consider myself not only slow but I take far to long building any item .There is only one other guy who's building a superb FORD class seaward defence boat in Litho plate who can genuinly lay claim to being slower than me. Ron is also in the same group and he's like a flash of lightning by comparison. I tend to build in a mixture of materials but that's not good practice, as you have mentioned the thermal qualities are all different. Non the less a little forethought and the problem seldom becomes serious. One question , have you built into the hull the recess for the rubbing strake just below the gunwale?
Dave Wooley

David-

You bring up a good point - I will have to make sure if I start with Lexan, I build the whole house with Lexan - The different thremal properties would be a problem - especially on a hot day such as today!

Ron seems to be blazing fast - he get through as much in a week as I do in a month!

I have not touched the Hull since I got it back. Just thinking out loud, I think I should:

(1) plan out the swim step - figuring out if there is anything I should do before,

(2) installing the jet drives

(3) motor mounts, motors and water cooling system

(4) put supports on the inside lip of the hull to support the deck -

(5) lay out supports / decide if there is going to be a camber

(6) construct the structures for the rubbing strake -

(7) lay down the deck.

I'd love to talk directly and get your opinion - you can send me a pm with your phone number and I'd be happy to call you.

Thanks,

Tarsier

I decided to start working from "the bottom up" so I am starting to work on the propulsion system and the electrical system. It has been a bit of an uphill battle learning about how to install the motors and jet drives.

I have also gotten a computer model of the Furuno radar base and I'm going to have printed out on a Z-Corp 3D printer - here is a picture of the computer model - I will post a photo of the part when I get it. It will be in 1/20 scale.




Tarsier

I can't seem to get anyone interested in this threat


I got the part fabricated, thought I had caluclated the right scale, but it is a bit too big so I am going to have to redo it. It was printed on a 3d printer from http://www.zcorp.com

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I made a tiny bit of progress - I finished the stand.



I have been working on assembling all of the components for the electronics and the propulsion system. I ordered battery packs from

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/ - the motors are 900s (as opposed to the usual 500 or 550s) - The MHZ jet drives need to run at between 10,000 to 15,000 rpm - therefore I need 24 cells per battery pack for each motor!

I ordered a radio setup from Spektrum RC :

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/Defa ... ID=SPM2460

And got four Hitec HS-5625MG digital servos.

I don't really know what I'm doing but I will just keep charging ahead and figure it out.

Tarsier