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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:12 pm 
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In 1854 during the Crimean War the allies besieged Sewastopol from the sea, but the siege of Kinburn half a year earlier proofed that the heavy armed russian fortifications and the thread that exploding shells were to wooden ships would prevent the allied fleet to get close enough to inflict substantial damage. Only when ironclad floating batteries arrived from France (they were in fact towed to the Black Sea) these were able to get close to the forts without beeing harmed by coastal artillerie and shoot them to pieces. These batteries, the Devastation, the Lave and the Tonnante, were so successfull, that after the Crimean War France launched more swimming armoured batteries: 1859 the four ships of the Paixhan-Class, 1862 four ships of the smaller Embuscade-Class and finally 1864 four ships of the Arrogante-Class, consisting of the Arrogante, the Implacable and the Optinátre.

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The latter class had a length of 44 m (Implacable and Optinátre only 40 m), beam of 14,65 m and draught of 3,05 m. The ships were armed first with nine 50 Pound (16 cm) muzzleloader, later these were changed to four 19 cm guns in the battery and two 16 cm guns on the main deck. Finally in 1867 they got an armament of three 23 cm breech loading cannons in the battery und four 50 Pound muzzleloader on the main deck. The model shows the ship in this final configuration.

The hull was made with 1 mm balsa planks on 3 mm plywood frames. This hull was than covered with fibreglass/epoxy with a thickness of another 1 mm. The curved front and backside of the battery were made od 1 mm sheet styrene.

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The plating of the hull was made with spray-filler. The close fitting lines of plates were masked with a rather thick masking-tape, than the whole thing was sprayed for times. It is important to remove the tape before the filler is completely dry to prevent fraying of the edges.

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to be continued ...


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:12 pm 
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Hi Egbeth A very interesting subject. I note that the three ships of the Arrogante class where iron hulled but not iron clad . Having only a 120mm belt. Was that belt part of the iron hull or bolted to the hull ? Is your 1;100 scale model working or static?.
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :cool_1:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:45 am 
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Hmmm. according to the plans from "Souvenirs de Marine" the belt was integral part of the hull. If my office-scanner is working I'll be posting a part of the plan this afternoon.

And yes it is working (but not under sail). Here's a picture from the first sea-trials:

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Cheers

Dirk


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:51 am 
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Hi Dirk Looks superb . Interestingly I was involved in Judging at a Model show
in the UK and one of the entries was this model of the steam floating
Battery "Demologos" built by liam Mcgreedy to plans from the US National
archive.The original was built to protect New York from the British in 1812
but completed after the war was over. like your L' Arrogante a facinating
study in warship design. This model of Demologos is working and a twin hull
design with the paddle box located between the two hulls.
Image
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:02 am 
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This looks very nice. Any plans of sailing her somewhere? I'd love to take some pictures of her.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:44 pm 
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Pieter wrote:
This looks very nice. Any plans of sailing her somewhere? I'd love to take some pictures of her.


Sailing? No. Although the schooner-brig configuration would not be soooo hard to sail, I stay with the "steam"-drive. And - if the gods of weather are friendly - maybe tomorrow will be the maiden-voyage of the finally finished Arrogante on our club-lake in Wuppertal (see http://www.smc-wuppertal.defur further details).

But to go further with the report:

The propellershafts are usual 2 mm shafts with 4 mm sterntubes. For the bearrings the end parts of Robbe sterntubes were cut off and soldered in a 4 mm brass tube on which the supprts were soldered. The rudder is made from 0,5 mm brass, soldered in a slit sawed in a 2 mm brass tube. On the outside the rudder was clad with 1 mm sheet-styrene.

The screws proved a little bit tricky. As there are no screws to buy, that look at least a little bit like the original ones, I had to make them by myself. Fortunally the design of the screw-blades was quite simple, they were just long tapezoids with no pitch, so they could be simply cut out from 0,5 mm brass. The only problem was the hub. As the hub of the Arrogante was flat with the shaft going not only in but through it, I bought two normal M2 plastic screws, burned the plastic away (CHILDREN: DON’T DO THIS AT HOME! GROWN UPS: OPEN ALL WINDOWS AROUND!) and Voila! got a perfect hub. On these I soldered the blades, each in a 45 degree angle (and this was the tricky part, as when you solder one blade the other tend to fall off. You really are tempted to convert to buddhism to stand this procedure.)

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The efficiency of this little and simple screws showed up quite sufficient (after all the Arrogant is not a speed-boat).

The next big part was the main deck. Although this seemes quite simple it is curved length- and crosswise AND I wanted to be able to take it off as a whole to get to the interior, so I couldn’t simply glue it to the beams. The solution was to stick a 1 mm balsa-deck with tacks to the beams and than laminate a layer of another 1 mm fibreglass/epoxy on it. After drying the deck could be removed and the points of the tacks were cut off. To hold the deck in place two 6 mm brass tubes were embedded in the stringers under the main deck with corresponding 4 mm brass pins embedded in the deck, which fit close in the tubes.

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The slit between the hull and the deck is covered by a 2,5 mm wide halfround styrene profile.

Than I made my first fault: I spray painted the underwatership red. Later, when doing the research for the Masséna, I found out, that the french navy in the second half of the 19th century used solely Prussian Green as anti-fouling colour, so I had to repaint it green.

According to some good pictures of the Embuscade-class ship Protectrice (a smaller Predecessor of the Arrogante) I plated the hull above the water line with 0.3 mm platic film. This part was than painted black.

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The Decks were planked with cherry vermeer.

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The gunports in the fore and after part of the batterie should be shown open to give sight to the big guns, so these were drilled out and sanded to shape. The inside of these parts of the batterie got a somewhat basic interieur with the guns, a wooden deck and the bronze-plate to move the guns on.

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The gunport lips are resin castings. For the closed side ports these were simply glued to the hull.

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Than the funnel was made from styrene tube and the rudder-podest from balsawood. The grating in the tower are of etched parts as are the gratings of the muzzle-loaders and the tops of the skylights. The lockers for the hammocks are made from styrene. The hammocks themself are small pieces of paper tissue, soaked in a mixture of water, glue and beige acrylic paint and than rolled, folded and stuck in the locker.

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Than I made a second mistake. As usual I made most of the superstructures from sheet styrene and painted them buff. Later I learned, that most of them were of clear varnished wood and only the tops of the skylight, the rudder-tower and the funnel were painted buff. I first tried to repaint is brown but this didn’t gave the antique-sailing-ship-like look so I later did most of the superstructures again in vermeer.

The first sea-trials were quite sufficient although due to the low freeboard the ship tends to gat a very wet foredeck.

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To be continued ...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:52 am 
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Location: Amiens - FRANCE
Hello Dirk, :wave_1:

Very interseting subject and not frequent! in France, i never see a model like this! I like to know the origin of your plans?.

And your work is very beautiful, felicitations! :thumbs_up_1:

Alain


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:33 am 
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The plans are from the "Souvenirs de Marine" Collection by Amiral Paris. They were offered by the Associazione Navimodellisti Bolognesi. I was quite happy when I saw the offering, as they had many plans for ships from my favorite period and I purchased three (Arrogante, Redoutable and Duilio), thinking these were model plans. When the plans arrived I was very disappointed. The plan of the Duilio was very good as it was the plan by Jürgen Eichardt, but the one for the Redoutable was just a printout from the free plans offered by the french ministry of defence and the one of the Arrogante was a printout of the pages from the book "Souvenirs de Marine". Also the price was not so high (20,00 €/16,50 €) I think they should have mentioned that these were just printouts of plans you could get for free. Also the plans for the Arrogante are quite useless as they give you three sights of the ship in three different configurations. So my Arrogante is more or less a reconstruction of the ship according to the "plans" and the few pictures of the real ship and the model in the musee de marine.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:47 am 
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Hi Egberth superb and looks to be sailing well. Question did you have to make a jig to fabricate your propellors?
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:49 am 
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Hello Dirk,

Thanks for your quickly answer! So i wanted precisely a opinion about the Associazone Navimodellisti Bolognesi and their plans ... well ...... i have!!! I wanted to buy the plan of the Redoutable, i know now that it's a waste of time!

best regards

Alain


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:04 am 
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Very interesting vessel-- from a little modelled era of an almost forgotten ( naval ) war!
I read somewhere that tehs elittle vessels were a horror to actually sail--and they were often towed...?

As ever-- great method-- clean execution!

:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

2 x slightly unrelated points...

1) Has work on the Massena been suspended...?

2) did you receive the rather neat Massena image I e-mailed a while back...


Bets Wishes

Jim Baumann

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:31 am 
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AlainFR wrote:
I wanted to buy the plan of the Redoutable, i know now that it's a waste of time!


Unfortunately as the plans at sevicehistorique are down for quite a time and there is no sign, if or when the plans will be online again, it may not be a waste of time (that is, if you haven't the plans already).

Dave Wooley wrote:
Hi Egberth superb and looks to be sailing well. Question did you have to make a jig to fabricate your propellors?


No! Jigs are for girls, real men suffer :cry_3: :wink:

JIM BAUMANN wrote:
Very interesting vessel-- from a little modelled era of an almost forgotten ( naval ) war!
I read somewhere that tehs elittle vessels were a horror to actually sail--and they were often towed...?


Yes. It even seems that the sails were never put up. All pictures show her without any sails and with lowerd yard.


Quote:
1) Has work on the Massena been suspended...?


Well, actually the work at the Massena (and the Cerberus, and the Wespe) suspended the work at the Arrogante. I started her quite a while ago, then lost motivation but just made up my mind to finish her (that maybe due to the fact that finishing the 120 windows and 80 bulleyes of the Massena isn't that motivating). But now after the Arrogante is finished there is no excuse to delay the Massena any more (O.K. there will be another little side-project: The Nordenfelt II aka Abdülhamid in 1:100 AND submersible!). There are at least some progresses since january (the funnels are finished and the aft bridge is on the way).

Quote:
2) did you receive the rather neat Massena image I e-mailed a while back...


Yes I got it. Many, many thanks :worship_1: :smallsmile: ! But as I can see in your question you didn't receive my answer to your mail (with my thoughts to the aft bridge). I will send it again this moment.

Cheers

Dirk

Bets Wishes

Jim Baumann[/quote]


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:28 pm 
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As I stated before, I had no real motivation to finish her für quite a long time but finally I got a shot in the arm to finish all open side-projects. Unfortunately I was so „in the flow“ that didn’t thought of making pictures of different stages.

When I got the kick I had to redo quite some things: I begun with the recolouring of the underwater-hull from red to green. Than all the gunport lids, that I just glued to the hull, were removed and connected to the hull by hinges I etched from 0,2 mm brass. The pattern for the hinges were taken from the picture of the Protectrice but even now I am not quite shure if these hinges had a sort of parking mechanism or if the lids were hold by chains or rods (well, I opted for the parking mechanism). Finally all the superstructure was removed and replaced by vermeer parts.

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The masts were already there (turned from a beech-rod) and the gaffs and the boom were turned from chopsticks I got at my local chinese diner (No, I didn‘t used them in accordance with its intended purpose before, I am a huge fan of fork and knive even for sweet&sour pork).

The rigging was mostly done with 0,4 mm (shrouds), 0,25 mm (standing and running rigging) and 0,15 mm (ratlines) rope by Morope (http://home.foni.net/~agondesen/). This is a plastic fibre, that has the advatage of not fuzzing but tends to undrill when cut (so you use a lighter, a cigarette or a soldering iron to cut it and everything is fine).

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For the blocks I punched out small circles from vermeer, glued them together (two for single pulleys, three for double pulleys) and clothed them with rigging material. As neither the plan nor pictures of the ship show how and were the running rigging was belayed, the cleats at the mast and the small belaying banks on deck were just educated guesses.

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The last thing I had to do were the lifeboats. According to the plan there was a „canotto“ and a „scialuppa“ on bord but as pictures and the model in the Musee de Marine show, this is in any case wrong. The pictures show two whalers hanging in the davits two additional boats on the main deck. According to the model in the Musee de Marine these seemed to be 8 m cutter. The model showed also a small dinghy-like boat between the cutters but as there is noc photographic proof of this boat (and there would have been no room to stow it without blocking the stairs to the battery-deck or the capstan and the capstan rollers) I left it.

As the whalers seem to had a kraweel planking, which means they had a smooth surface, I made them like the boats for my Wespe class gunboat (http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=48587&p=317074#p317074). The cutters had a clinker-planking and were made like the boats on the HMVS Cerberus (http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?p=261619#p261619).

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The admirality anchors were hung to the cathead by blocks and secured on deck with a chain. To get the deck removed one cahin link on each side of the foredeck is left open, so the anchor chain can be easily released.

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Tho model is propelled by two small 6 V bell-shaped rotor motors and powered by two 6 V 1,2 Ah lead-acid batteries. As you can see the removable deck give an exellent access to the rc-components, although parts of the battery-deck is built in.

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O.K. thatÄs it. Finally finished. Some more pictures of the model as a whole:

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I will hand in pictures of her maiden-voyage as soon as possible.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Hi Egberth This is an interesting project . I like the way you have exposed the pivot gun tracks and their positions under the deck both fore and aft :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:
Dave Wooley


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:36 pm 
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And here are the pictures of her maiden-voyage, as promised:

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In the water she proofed quite a stable ship. As expected at maximum speed fore- and aft-deck get very wet, but this maximum speed is far away from scale speed (the original ship made only 6.8 kn so you hardly have to pull the stick even one third of the way up), in which the decks stay dry.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:50 am 
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Completed


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:36 am 
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Super . :good_job: :lol_3: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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