The Ship Model Forum

Yes, yes finally, I had the guts to get started on my Udaloy... In 1/100 that is.
Apart from that sole 1/72 testbed, I haven't done anything in large scale nor real R/C. And as Master's Ron and Dave will agree, this thing has to be R/C!!!
Practical questions now:

What glue do you guys use for the different parts? The decks and superstructure are plastic (ABS), the hull is fibreglass and the supports for the decks are wooden beams to be put inside the hull. The main details are resin and PE. So what do I use to connect the PE to the resin parts? And what do I use for the ABS parts? I guess normal CA won't do for R/C use?!

I have two component epoxy glue I assume I will use that for the wood and the hull. What do I use for the shafts etc? I heard Car Body filler would be usefull there? Do I first glue them to the hull and add the body filler after? Or would the Filler alone suffice to keep everything in place?

The main thing is that I will have to do some adaptations as the shaft base on the Udaloy is a little different, it's worked in the hull, so I'll add triangular pieces of styrene between shaft base and the hull and then fill and shape the stuff with filler or milliput?
What is the easiest way to align the shafts? to make it symmetrical?

Here is where I got up till now. Little stuck on the hull so I glued some PE to resin with 1hr Epoxy. Is there any single component glue which can be used? Because I discovered I'm not so good in two component stuff (I kinda hate it already )

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The merchant shipyard

Ok, so after lots of help from Dave and Ron, I finally continued.
The hull was about 1cm too broad for the decks to fit in, so I glued some deck supports on the side. The wooden beams were included in the kit for that reason. I also cut some of them to match the deck beam. Then I used two component epoxy glue to glue the beams between the deck supports on the side. I need a LOT of weight to keep the hull together at the correct beam. After 24 hours the glue was fully dried out and I slowly removed the weight. Luckily it kept. After four beams I started adding more of them, now the sunken deck. I suppose the force will be carried by all beams and it will be less on each one of them.
The decks are now more or less fitting in. I will fill up the gaps with some sort of filler.
The shafts have been fixed inside (using car body filler) now too as well as the rudder support (with two component epoxy glue).
I started the superstructures. They can be made seperately. On the deck there is an out-line of each superstructure, but the bottom part is also provided seperately to build up that superstructure without fixing it to the deck. I suppose I'll have to add some strengthening to them as they are just built up out of different thicknesses of ABS (styrene). I'll also use a different glue as I have the feeling it is all quite weak up till now.
It took a while, and will take a while, to fill up all gaps etc. Also the instructions are not so clear, so you have to check everything a few times over to find the correct assembly.

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The merchant shipyard

Now the rudder is also installed, although I found out the hull is still too wide aft. I'll have to cut one of the beams and stick it together again afterwards. I'll also have to add more beams, as only one is really keeping the hull together now.
Anyway I'm nearly finished with sanding the shafts' connection to the hull. I'm also building various parts of the superstructure together so I can go faster without losing time waiting for stuff to dry.
The main parts I'm working on is the aft part now.
Here is a picture of everything I'm working on. Some parts are stopped because I have to wait untill the decks are stuck to the hull.


I made the mistake of cutting all the pre-cut squares etc. on the side. Apparently they were only indications of the position of some parts. I doubt the parts are included (no details are shown in the instruction sheets), so I'm closing all these holes again, filling the lines and scratchbuilding the electrical boxes which are in those places. I have good reference pictures thanks to Dave W, so I can add some extra detail. Here I'm closing some of the holes.




Here you see two of these boxes in places. You can also see some lines drawn where I will have to cut the structure to make it more realistic. The deck has a lot of pre-cut lines/markings, for a lot of detail, which all seem to be very accurate. However parts for these details are not always provided.


Here is the part in place. All superstructures are indicated on the deck, yet they can be built up seperately, with a bottom place for everything provided. The helo deck is not yet glued, just there for showing.


The aft part. There should be a large hatch (resin part provided) there, but I first have to cut parts of the bottom plate and the deck to allow the hatch to be placed. Anyway I will only do that in the end, when I put everything in place. Up till now the helo deck is nicely fitting on top of that piece of superstructure. Note the bad fit of the deck on the hull in this part. Hull is still too broad, you can see the wooden support on the starboard side. The deck can be pushed against the stern plate, but now it is not fitting there as there is still a part which I have to cut (connection between port and starboard side of the deck, it doesn't fit in the VDS well.)

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The merchant shipyard

Hi Roel Your Udaloy is taking shape well. Question have you fitted the rudder linkages yet? Not knowing the arrangements for the construction of the kit, is there plenty of room for removal of the superstructure to allow the installation of the motors and R/C equipment? Also may I make an observation? It might be of help if you plan were you intend to site your R/C gear, ESC and the location of the RX on off switch. This may sound obvious but I find it helpful to make all my pre -sailing checks on the work bench, Install the batteries, close down the superstructure. Now I am ready to sail. No fumbling at the lake side as the on off switch is located under a removable "small" deck housing. That’s all that needs to be done before launching apart from switching on the TX. Why I mention this now, as all of this seems some months away is that in the eagerness to get the model built these simple pointers can be left behind. Hope you don't mind me making these observations but I can honestly say thinking ahead saves any problems arising later on especially when you are having fun sailing such a superb model.
Dave Wooley

Hello Master Dave,

of course I don't take any offense, this is exactly what I wish to receive: interesting feedback from experienced (or ideas from inexperienced) builders.
I was indeed planning all this in advance. I have, since one week now, stepped back the high pace of the build, in order to increase the quality and detailing of the build. I will do piece by piece now and not start any new seperate structures. Also, the hull is not entirely finished yet, that is also why I haven't connected the decks yet. I will first put the motors in place and do some planning, as I've seen on your Mersey and Kiev, for the R/C gear. I will probably also do an early sailing test of the model, before I start adding all parts etc.
Basically all superstructures have a hole beneath them. Inside that hole are the pieces to make a nice barrier around the hole to avoid ingress of water. So practically any superstructure can be made an access. The largest one is the longitudinal hole below the aft superstructure with the helo deck. First I will make a planning where to get everywhere and see that I have enough access. Both Ron and you have indicated that that is important and who am I to say you're wrong

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The merchant shipyard

Here is the aft part of the superstructure. I've added the boxes, and I've also adapted (not entirely finished yet) the wrong part of the superstructure. For some reason that door seems to be a seperate locker, not entirely connected to the rest. On top of its roof there is a pipe, running all the way aft to eventually end up in the real main deck. Possibly it is a fuel pipe for the helicopter fuel which they tried to avoid running through that locker... Not sure though.




Anyway I have to make some round corners on that superstructure too. Some are straight angles, others are rounded.
What glue do I best use for PE on this ABS surface? It's for R/C so I suppose Zap C/A won't do?

Here are the pictures of the hull. Unfortunately there is no real "big" entry into the hull. The largest hole is below that forward deckhouse which has the aft AK-100 gun on top. However, I already put a beam there... I can remove that one though, although that space is very far forward compared to the R/C gear.
The aft hole, is very long and open, but it's lower above the water, narrow and aft of the motors. Maybe suitable for batteries...
I think the best solution would be to leave the aft part of the upper main deck open. It's provided already seperately I also put a beam underneath it, but again I suppose I can remove it if necessary. THat hole is not so long, but it has the entire breadth of the ship and it has some height as it is close to the aft deck. I could probably slide some electronics inside.
If you have any better ideas for the access, please tell me. I didn't open all holes, but as you can see all the other holes are smaller...
I removed the beam in the aft deck so the aft deck isn't fitting too well on the hull anymore. The beam was just too broad, so I'll make a smaller one and probably add a second one too.






The motor is about in position. It will be more sideways as it just slid out of position before I took the picture. A second motor will be next to it. The planning for the R/C gear will take a while, considering the small amount of small and narrow openings in the deck.

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The merchant shipyard

So, here is some more progress. After making most of the electrical boxes (that's what I suppose they are), I found out there are actually some PE doors provided. Luckily my estimate of the size of the boxes was just about right, so the doors nicely fitted on top of my boxes. The doors are also provided. All ships of the Udaloy class are very different, so I don't even pretend to get those doors right. They are also hinging on other sides, no real rule about starboard and port doors hinging to one side. So I'm just picking them from whatever pictures I can gather.
The PE is very nicely designed.
Here is one of the Kinzhal (SA-N-9) launchers. The hatch and centre part are exactly correct from what I get from pictures. The resin part beneath the PE part is ok on this launcher, but some of them have a few bubbles molded in them.




I've continued on some other parts now, I intend to make one of the hangar open, with the roof opened and the inside a little further detailed. This is only a dry fit. I'm waiting glue it until I have the lower part right. I've seen a few more errors and details to add there too.


In the meanwhile I'm also continuing in my effort to get that hull to shape. Finally most of it is fitting with the decks now, only that very aft part is a little difficult. As you can see in the upper left corner of the picture, the stern is really too wide. The wooden beam I stuck along the side of it even came loose there. I think I will cut the stern, under the VDS door, through, to take away some tension and bend it a little inward.

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The merchant shipyard

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=41350

So here she is. I guess it's better to put it in this section. I wasn't really planning on making a real build topic, hence I only posted some pics in Picture Post. Now, after posting pics regularily I suppose it's better to make it a topic here.
Enough talking. This is where I left on the other topic. The aft section wasn't really fitting with the deck, so I had to cut the stern (most of it will be below the VDS hatch) to release the pressure on the hull. As you can see the wooden beam on both sides has released from the hull. It's not a really nice cut, but it's not easy to cut in that spot with a proxxon. It seems that there is less resistance now, so I'll try to glue the hull again to the beams. Then I'll break my head over how to seal that cut.
I suppose more experienced scratch and R/C builders are over here, so maybe there can be more assistance from you guys.
As you can see in the topic, there's plenty of nice PE provided. Too bad there aren't any instructions for the PE. You just have to puzzle all the pieces the together. On the picture you can also see they have a lot of details pre-cut in the deck. Remarkably, from pictures, it seems to be pretty accurate. I only have to find out which PE piece to fit on each of these marks.


I also cut that small part from the main deck to fit with the stern.

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The merchant shipyard

Neptune,

While you await feedback from experienced guys (which I am not ) can I ask you for a link to Arkmodel site to see that model. 1:100 Udaloi - that should be a big boat (how long is she?)

Yevgeniy

http://www.arkmodel.com/b7524_e.htm

Here's the link. She's about 1.62m long. Didn't measure the real model yet though. For all other people that want to start something this size.
I'm using Bison 2 component Epoxy glue, 24 hours drying time. I use this glue for the wooden beams in the hull, the rudder support, and I'll also use it for the decks on the beams.
For the ABS/styrene parts, I'm using UHU Allplast, a sort of glue that melts nearly all types of plastic together, pretty strong.
And now, after using the Bison for PE on styrene and Resin (and getting tired of all the waiting), I've started using Slo-Zap, a slower drying Cyano acrylate, which according to the people in the shop, is pretty strong and should suffice for these parts. I'll also use it for the resin parts on styrene and resin on resin.
I also have some fillers, for styrene I'm using Humbrol filler and for the deck in the hull I'll use something else. I'll revert with it if it works. Special filler for fibreglass and wood etc. I hope it'll work. When I start putting the decks on.

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The merchant shipyard

Thank you, already looked through their site! Your overview of glues for this build would be also very handy for me when I start something like this! Keep up this great work

Yevgeniy

Thanks Yevgen, that's pretty much what this topic is for. It's my first large scale build too. I'm tackling every problem which I encounter and try to explain how I solved it or what the solution is. I hope it helps other people to take the step to a large kit/scratchbuild and make their lives easier.

Today I had to go for something else. First of all I glued those beams on the hull so that the hull is narrower aft. That worked, the deck "nicely"' fits in. I'll also add some beams on the stern now, to keep it together and support the deck in that place too. I'll also have to make small cuts for the mine laying devices aft.


As I was a little tired of superstructures, I decided to start one of the main guns. Here are the pics. Instructions were once again pretty scetchy and the part below the turret is not really mentioned or shown. They are resin cast parts, except for the barrel supports. These are styrene sheets. The beam that goes through the barrel, to make it rotate up and down, is a piece of sprue which I sanded to the correct diameter and cut to length. The easy thing about the UHU Allplast is that it just stick styrene, so the resin of the barrel is not stuck to these sheets, this allows it to rotate freely.

The beginning


PE is provided for all the steps etc. But PE is flat and steps and stairs are not... So I made my own from steel rod. Not really a good choice maybe, a true headache to cut and shape, but in the end the result is ok. I'm lucky that Russian ships were also built pretty shabby and nothing is really straight on those ships either. Dry fit of the gun mount. The bottom of the turret was way too large.


The barrel between the two supports. The sprue beam is visible.


Practically I drilled a series of holes in the front of the turret. Then I put inside something that looks like a stitch. After that I wanted to put a brass rod of 0.5mm in front of the stitches and bend them over to become the steps. This method prooved too hard as the glue didn't keep the forces and the "stitch" just came out, it didn't bend as I wanted it.
After that I just started making these stitches, but bent them to correct shape before I mounted them on the gun. Not really perfect either as you'll see...


Here is where I am now. The barrel is just dry fitted until I am finished with all the steps and details around the gun.


In the meanwhile I started another small thing. The Kite Screech guidance radar for the main guns.

Very nice part to make, although a few detail errors are there. Also the resin has a few error in it, so I think I'll remove some parts and replace them by styrene sheets. You can see on of the sides is not so smooth...


That's it for now. I hope the second gun will be better than this one. Maybe I'll think of another method before I start that one. I also have to find a way to fix the additional steps around the gun. It would be strange if I used the flat PE for those as it would be different from all the steps on the front of the turret.

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The merchant shipyard

Hi Roel It's the first time I have seen the detail on the turrets. I'm impressed. keep up the good work .
Dave Wooley

thanks for the comments Dave, I'm a 1/700 builder, can't just leave that amount of detail out. Although the stuff that is molded in the turret is also quite nice, they have also provided the same details in PE. I don't think I will use it as it is already molded in the turret and it's quite nice as it is.
So I've started with those additional stairs on the turret, but it's not going fast. I've also stuck the lower side of the turret to the upper side, and so I'll have to fill a couple of holes, with milliput I think. The lower part of the turret seems to be, on the real turret, a different structure. Looks like insulation.

Anyway, I did proceed and finish, the Kite Screech guidance radar. I added the hole on the left side of the dish through which the optical back-up camera is looking. And I also added some metal beams and the transmitter/receiver in front of the dish. The metal beams were provided, but the diameter of the tubes was too thick, so I replaced them by steel rod of 0.4mm.
I also did the small mast on which the Kite Screech is sitting. Not yet finished though.
First of course, I started adding some supports in the hull and another beam so that the amount of filler to fit the aft deck, will be limited. Now the hull is nearly fitting with the deck.
Next step I guess, is scratching all my courage together and search for a way to fix the motors in the hull before I can actually put on the deck.
The original part of the Kite Screech and a part which I made below it. The original part was smaller as it was meant to sit inside the dish. In reality however, it seems to be the waveguide of that radar and hence it is passing through holes in the dish. That's why I made that part myself.


Kite Screech "as finished" (some wires hanging on the back and some steps to be added later on)



And the small mast. Not yet finished though, there should be a PE ladder running to the top and some railings too, but I'm still looking through the provided PE to find those pieces.

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The merchant shipyard

Roel, I do not have much experience with fixing hulls, but I am thinking fiber glass cloth with epoxy should fix it. Anything else may not be as strong.

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INS Veer: 1/100 scale, under construction!

Roel, You have seen enough of my builds to be able to fix that small split, a small amount of resin, thin tissue fiba matting on the inside, when set, on the outside a small amount of body filla and sand down.

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Simple but effective.

Hmm, big difference in reading your builds (easy for everybody) and really trying something like that yourself. There's always a big step to buy something new and try to get a good result with that stuff. I'm not a fan polyester at all, but since I'll try to do a part of the pond myself, I guess it'll be a valuable experience. I can also use some spare matting and resin from that pond to fix this one. I'll see.

I'm busy doing the twin forward funnel nowadays. Furthermore, little progress has been made.

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The merchant shipyard

Haven't been sitting still. The hull is getting better by now. I finally got the courage to make the motor supports in alluminium L-shapes (as Dave does). They aren't glued in place yet as I don't have screws to attach the motors.
Furthermore I've continued with the funnels. As they didn't take in account the thickness of the ABS sheets, there is some filling to do, which takes some time and sanding.




It actually starts looking like an Udaloy


This is the place where I want to make the entrance for the electronics. I intend to make a hole just between the two [ shapes on each side of the ship. There is a deck on top of it, so the cut will hardly be visible. And in this way I can make a rather long and reasonably broad hole as an entrance. Together with the piece of deck wich extends over the aft deck I will have entrance to the motors. Also the servo will be put somewhere in there.


The twin forward funnel. For all these holes on the side, a PE grating is provided. After finishing sanding all the corners I'll put these gratings in place (after painting one side black, the same as the inside of the funnels).




And the two aft funnels. Slightly sloping outside. The shapes and size looks pretty accurate.

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The merchant shipyard

Hi Roel Good progress . You have done a really good job on those funnel casings a tricky build for sure.
Dave Wooley

Agree with Dave on that, you have done well with the funnels.

Is the running hardware included with the kt? And how did you align the stuffing tubes?

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INS Veer: 1/100 scale, under construction!