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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Hi all!

Tired of big SMS Grosser Kurfust in 1:350 :heh: which gave me much stress I decided to do something smaller in-between to test some techniques and return to the battleship a bit later. Fascinated by scratchbuilding achievements on this and other forums I wanted to try it. So I decided to build a Kaiserlische destoyer thinking it will be simple :heh:

My choice was V106 torpedo boat based on free paper model from from Digital Navy. The company offers paper model of V108 but I want my SMS torpedoboat to be in black livery. One of experts on Russian forum gave me a photo of V106 in black color so I decided I will build V106 (in doing so I will have to change the guns from 88mm to 57 mm which were used on V106 and I do not have plans for them so far.. will investigate may be V106 carried 88mm guns in times of being black ? :heh: )

Here is the photo of V106 in black livery (much attractive than grey to my liking)
Image

At first I thought I would not make a photo report especially as I do not have a proper camera :heh: excluding one on mobile phone. But later after reading threads on this forum on SMS torpedo boats I thought my attempt may be interesting and I may get some new information I do not have to build this model.

This was the start:
Image

I cut the ribs out of 1,2 mm cardboard (e-shop listed it as 1,0 mm) but when I got it and measured by my slide caliper I understood I got fooled :heh: Being impatient I decided to use what I have and widened slots on ribs.

After installing all the ribs the hull was filled with fragments of foam board (from hi-fi packaging which I had in the closet to be able to return them to sellers in case of warranty repair :heh: ).

Afterwards the hull was filled with acrylic putty for wood from construction shop:
Image

After filling I brushpainted the hull with acrylic paint (for walls) to protect it from solvent as I wanted to cover it by automotive filler from can (actually I had automotive primer which I wanted to use as filler because it worked this way on plastic). After 2 layers of paint I thought I will be safe...alas after I covered the hull with a good layer of primer it started to eat my polystyrene...no photo :heh: I thought it was the end as the hull looked as food scraps...but couple of beers and good sleep returned my inspiration. So I used construction foam from can to fill the hull again and more acrylic putty after cutting off foam orienting by ribs.

Now the hull is restored and covered with same acrylic paint :heh: (guys building R/C models from epoxy and fiber use same acrylic paint to protect their hulls but they use automotive filler instead of primer) I am going to buy automotive filler now...suspect the primer has more solvent in it so it dissolved my paint when I layed a heavy layer of primer (I forgot a brush covered by this paint in my modelling room and the next day I could not clean it in lacquer thinner...had to leave it for next day in bottle of thinner to dissolve the paint). Anyway I will try on a piece of polystyrene.

I decided to make some changes in Digital Navy proposed way of building this model. First - I do not like using paper for small details and superstructure. So I decided to use metal. In order to do so I have to change the way of building this model.

For example Digital Navy proposed way of building superstructure:
Image

I want the walls being covered by metal sheet so I created superstructure by cutting same segments from cardboard and gluing them one on another to have necessary thickness. After filling and sanding (Revell's putty) it looks like this on the photo ready to be laminated by sheet metal:
Image

I glued paper on sheet of metal (aluminium) with resin glue to cut it out later. Resin glue is a marvel for such purposes (already tried)- after I remove a paper from metal there is no glue residue on metal. After cutting I will take the paper out so I will have ony metal part which I will glue to superstructure made from cardboard.

Guess where I got this sheet of aluminium?? :heh:

I am inclined to get this project to the end - one of the reason to start it was to try rigging from fishing line to use the experience on my Grosser Kurfurst which I am very afraid to spoil now...only rigging and adding railings plus installing already finished boats remained.
Image
Image

Plan to continue them both by V106 first :cool_2:

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Location: Liverpool
Hi Yevgeniy This is a good subject and a different approach to the construction of the hull.
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Thank you Dave for your support and kind words!

I like this ship, simple and graceful in the same time.

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:15 pm 
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Hi all,

As you may know I am trying to scratchbuild German WWI Torpedo Boat V106 in 1:200 viewtopic.php?f=13&t=55067 and now is the time to buy some paints for it :heh:

I would like to consult you on the correct color choice. I like German Torpedo boats looking as this (picture if I remember right is from wonderful igkm.de site):
Image

1st question: is this paint scheme correct?

If yes then I would like to specify correct colors.

We had a detailed discussion on colors for SMS Schiffe (capital ships) here viewtopic.php?f=47&t=28612&start=100 thanks to Olaf Held and ingura for their expertise I understood that underwater part of ships (any class) can be painted with RAL 8013 (which is non-available now from sellers :heh: ). However thanks to Olaf I know that Revell paint #37 (and corresponding numbers with other manufacturers) are the closest match. However your thought on what is the best 'red' for underwater part are much appreciated.

The biggest question is about 'black'. I understand about 'scale effect' and that 'black' shall not be 'too black' to give a correct representation, close to this: http://german-navy.tripod.com/SMS_TL_B-Boats.jpg However I want to break the rule here and have a totally 'black' destroyer if they were painted 'black'. Can I use something like Revell #6 or #8 for those purposes (tar black) to be 'historically' correct (forgetting that from modelling point of view it may be wrong )

As to the deck I will follow the instructions given by ingura here viewtopic.php?f=47&t=28612&start=100#p308974 so the deck will be 'almost black'.

I think this picture also represents the effect I want to achieve: 'tar black' for all (may be a little brown smoky wash also - by Tamiya smoke) :heh: and 'almost black' deck
Image

What do you think?

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:41 am 
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Part of forward superstructure is laminated with 0,1 mm aluminium foil (almost same as 'litho plate')
Image
Have 2 more parts for lamination, open pilot house will be without cardboard walls - they should be pretty thin in 1:200 so I will use only aluminium.

Portholes were drilled by pin vice after laminating. I already damaged my 1st pre-cut aluminium part by drilling portholes before laminating - when I tried to glue it on cardboard and make a curve it gave a very visible fold at the place of central porthole because the hole weakened the part and it just folded sharp instead of giving a smooth curve.

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:50 am 
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Hi Yevgeniy good model appearence.
make samller models is difficult too.
very good :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:01 am 
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Thank you Capitão! I wanted a small model in order to be able to finish it in several months :heh: as it is my first scratchbuilding attempt. I plan that my next ship will be larger!

Your model is great inspiration for me so I am learning from you :thumbs_up_1:

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:14 am 
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Hi Yevgeniy I am also working on the portholes but unlike yourself I took the easy way out. One of my most used tools is the pin vice but the very fine drills have a limited life, with me anyway . You are progressing well keep going .
Dave Wooley :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:21 am 
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Thank you too Yev
well when you start a big larger model tell us.
i am waiting for more of your work. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Olaf may correct me, but:

Torpedo Boats:
Hull & Superstructure, Black-Grey, RAL 7021—use KM 07;
Underwater Hull, Brownish-Red, RAL 3011—use US 14;
After 1916, Bluish Grey, RAL 7031—use IJN 02.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:06 pm 
...


Last edited by ingura on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:06 pm 
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John, thank you very much, you see, we all have same opinion.

Peter, thank you a lot!!! :thumbs_up_1: Now I know how to proceed for sure :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:

Thank you, guys!!!

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:32 am 
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Hi all,

If nobody objects I will ask moderators to include this into my thread "Torpedoboot V106 in 1:200" in scratchbuilding section as it contains quite valuable data for other modelers building this ship many thanks to ingura and I do not want it to disappear on main forum as here we have quite many posts. It will be safe for years in Scratchbuilding section :heh:

My thread in Scratchbuilding section is now dormant but work is going on - I decided to build a new hull since that one build on the basis of Digital Navy plan does not look like a ship but like a toy. I compared it with original drawing of V106 I got from friends in e-copy and understood that I will not be happy working on small parts and building up my ship knowing that the hull is wrong.

So pictures of my progress will be...hopefully soon :heh: :heh: :smallsmile: I already prepare myself mentally that if I do not like a second hull I will build a third one but third will be probably the last anyway.

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:30 am 
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Fingers crossed for continuation of the build. I presume, you have found orginal set of plans of V105-108 from Polish MSiO magazine?

John @ WEM wrote:
Underwater Hull, Brownish-Red, RAL 3011—use US 14;

ingura wrote:
Underwater hull: RAL 3011 (but your Revell choice might work as well)

Wasn't underwater hull black? I have thought that red for underwater hull was used only in the bigger vessels. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
Marek

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Marek

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:09 am 
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Marek, hi!

I slowly proceed with this build and making a new hull. I hope to finish new hull and make pictures in couple of weeks - waiting until I can make pics myself as I want to make a comparison of old vs. new hull on photos.

What is MSIO magazine (I understand it is an abbreviation but I do not know what it means)? Will be much greatful for an explanation so I will get myself a copy.

I use the plan got from a friend in e-form, it is a heavily distorted due to copying so I had to learn Photoshop and correct assymetrical lines. This already finished, new ribs cut, now I fitting them to place, later filling with styrofoam, automotive filler, sanding, etc. once again for the same ship :heh:

As to the color of the underwater hull I fully rely on information from Mr. Lienau aka ingura according to whom it was Brownish-Red. Other models I have seen also show the underwater part in red (see one above). I want this ship in black livery (pre-war) - it could have being repainted later (it was grey above the water) but I am not interested in later paint patterns.

Cheers,

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:33 am 
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Hi!

Yevgeniy wrote:
What is MSIO magazine (I understand it is an abbreviation but I do not know what it means)? Will be much greatful for an explanation so I will get myself a copy.

MSiO - Morza Statki i Okrety. Polish monthly magazine about ships & naval history. Old issues may be obtained on publisher website:
http://www.magnum-x.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10:msionew&catid=5:categorymsio&Itemid=15
Two interesting issues are 6/2004 and 1/2005 - they contain photos and shipyard plans of those torpedoboats.

Here is build process of my V105 in 1:400 scale. http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6223 Two photos of original vessel are from the mentioned magazine. Gallery of the finished model is in mw.com gallery section. There is still a lot of inaccuracies in the model, but some info may be helpful.

Yevgeniy wrote:
As to the color of the underwater hull I fully rely on information from Mr. Lienau aka ingura according to whom it was Brownish-Red. Other models I have seen also show the underwater part in red (see one above). I want this ship in black livery (pre-war) - it could have being repainted later (it was grey above the water) but I am not interested in later paint patterns.

My question was mostly directed to ingura (if you don't mind) - I am curious of his opinion about black underwater part of hull.

Regards,
Marek

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Marek

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:11 am 
...


Last edited by ingura on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:40 am 
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Hi Peter,

Thank you for clarification. Polish Mirage got another thing wrong... In the instructions to their model V106 in 1:400 scale they stated that underwater hull is black. :(

Regards,
Marek

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:31 pm 
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I would like to consult those familiar with SMS torpedo boats.

Below is the picture of 3d render in Rhino done by fellow member on Russian forum. Look at the line pointed by arrow.
Image
This line is not straight line but a slight curve. Thus the deck is not a flat surface but a sort of 'swell'.

This 3d model is build using ribs plan we received from friends. My question is: does such slight curve of the deck looks realistic to you? To me it looks realistic for a deck of torpedo boat but I do not know does it correspond to reality.

If the deck is not flat but is a 'swell' I will be able to show it in 1:200 scale (probably impossible in smaller scale).

Cheers,

Yevgeniy


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:43 pm 
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Last edited by ingura on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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