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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:26 pm 
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National Post

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DND needs an extra $54M — just to evaluate bids to build it a new fleet of warships
The cost of the 15 new ships, which will replace existing Halifax-class frigates, has steadily climbed from an estimated $15 billion to roughly $60 billion


(...SNIPPED)

The cost of the new Canadian Surface Combatants, which will replace the existing Halifax-class frigates, has steadily been climbing. The 15 ships were originally estimated to cost $15 billion. That increased to $24 billion before DND came out with a new estimate of around $40 billion. That too has since changed, and the project is now estimated to cost between $55 billion and $60 billion — and even then, the federal government acknowledges it doesn’t know what the program’s final cost will be to taxpayers. Parliamentary budget officer Jean-Denis Fréchette estimated last year the CSC program would cost $61.82 billion, and warned that every year the awarding of the contract is delayed beyond 2018, taxpayers will spend an extra $3 billion because of inflation.

Despite the Liberal government’s repeated statements about openness and transparency, it took Postmedia more than three months to get basic information from DND about its request for new funding, and even then, the details provided are limited.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:06 pm 
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A belated update:

Ottawa Citizen

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Firms didn’t bid on Canadian Surface Combatant because of concerns about technical data, says executive

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 19, 2018 | Last Updated: April 19, 2018 8:43 PM EDT

In December Fincantieri of Italy and Naval Group of France decided not to bid on the Canadian Surface Combatant project. Instead, they offered the Canadian government a direct proposal that would see the the companies build 15 of the consortium’s FREMM frigates at a fixed price of roughly $30 billion.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:08 pm 
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That's more than the cost of a new Burke class DDG!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:06 am 
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Budget breakdown for the RCN's CSC project:

Ottawa Citizen

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Top procurement official outlines how Canadian Surface Combatant budget would be spent

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 26, 2018 | Last Updated: April 26, 2018 11:15 PM EDT

(...SNIPPED)

Pat Finn, the Assistant Deputy Minister for Materiel at the Department of National Defence, has provided Defence Watch with a rough breakdown of how that money would be spent. He noted the following:

Construction of the ships – 50 to 60 per cent of the budget

Integrated logistics support (includes spare parts, technical data package, training, ammunition) – 20-25 per cent of budget

Infrastructure (construction of jetties, upgrades to existing docks) – 5 per cent

Project office cost over the life of the program (salaries for staff, travel, etc.) – 5 per cent

Contingency fund – (fluctuations in exchange rates, other unforeseen issues) – 10 to 15 per cent


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Type 26 GCS for the RCN, anyone? We'd have to wait longer as well...

Ottawa Citizen

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Type 26 frigate - contender for Canadian warship program - won’t be operational until 2027
David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: May 13, 2018 | Last Updated: May 13, 2018 12:05 PM EDT

One of the top contenders in Canada’s new frigate program – a ship now being built for the United Kingdom – won’t be operational for the Royal Navy until 2027.

BAE’s Type 26 frigate has been ordered by the United Kingdom and the cutting of steel started last year.

But the United Kingdom’s defence procurement minister Guto Bebb has told parliamentarians that the first of those frigates won’t be delivered until 2025. Because of testing it won’t become operational until 2027, the minister added.

The Type 26 design has been submitted to Canada for its Canadian Surface Combatant program and is one of three contenders. Construction on the Canadian frigate program to start in the early 2020s.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Marine Link

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GE Powers Canada’s New Combat Ships

June 1, 2018

GE Aviation’s marine gas turbines are the ideal solution for the Royal Canadian Navy’s next generation surface combatant program, GE Marine said Thursday at the CANSEC 2018 trade exhibition.

“GE’s LM2500 family of engines are used by the Royal Canadian Navy and 34 other navies worldwide, setting the benchmark for reliability. The global fleet of GE gas turbines has logged over 15 million operating hours in the marine environment and another 90 million in industrial applications,” said Brien Bolsinger, GE’s Vice President, Marine Operations, Cincinnati, Ohio. “The 24 LM2500 marine gas turbines used by the Royal Canadian Navy propel their Halifax-class frigates. All the while, GE supports these gas turbines with a customized in-country engine service program. The LM2500 gas turbine family of engines are dependable and a low risk solution for Canada’s next generation surface combatant program,” he added.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Navy Recognition

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Alion Submitted Final Proposal For Canadian Surface Combatant Program

August 2018 Naval News
Posted On Saturday, 25 August 2018 10:51

Alion Canada, a wholly owned subsidiary of Alion Science and Technology, headquartered in McLean, Va., is pleased to announce that they have submitted their final bid and compliance forms to the Canadian government for the Canadian Surface Combatant Program. This is a major milestone in the Canadian Surface Combatant procurement.procurement.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Janes

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Sea Platforms
Canadian frigate delayed again
Ian Keddie, Toronto - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
15 October 2018

A long-awaited decision on the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) frigate replacement programme has been delayed once more, although it is unclear for how long.
In the official Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) update document released on 27 September, PSPC indicated no CSC design would be chosen in third quarter 2018, after indicating to Jane’s in May 2018 that a decision would be made at that time.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:40 pm 
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At least one current serving RCN officer has weighed in on the "Best Frigate for Canada" Facebook group criticizing the offer since the British version has 24 VLS tubes even though it's actually capable of holding 48, depending on what Ottawa actually finalizes for the specs.

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Type 26 named as the design for Canada’s future warship
David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: October 19, 2018
Irving Shipbuilding and Public Services and Procurement Canada have announced that BAE-Lockheed Martin is the industry team which scored the highest with their bid to provide the 15 new warships for the Royal Canadian Navy. The consortium is the “preferred bidder” according to the federal government, for the Canadian Surface Combatant program. Its design is the Type 26. That selection will now set off negotiations which in turn will – if all is successful – produce a contract. The entire project is worth $60 billion, with an estimated 60 per cent for the actual ship.
(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:32 am 
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IMO this is a highly risky decision. Theres a strong chance that it will end up like the cyclone disaster since this ship type is untested and development is up too the whim of the manufacturer.
im surprised given the budget coonstraints that they didnt choose a more proven ship with operational time to back them up


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Keep in mind the decision made this week is based on what's promised, not how likely the government thinks BAE can keep those promises - that's part the "due diligence" phase that begins now and will go on for the next 6 months or so.

That being said, Canada building untested designs for its fleet isn't entirely new - we've been doing it for nearly every single class since the end of the Second World War. I'd have been happy with any of the other two designs as well, but can understand the appeal of having the latest generation that maximizes future-proofing.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Timmy C wrote:
but can understand the appeal of having the latest generation that maximizes future-proofing.


I fail to understand what would be considered the 'latest generation'.

In my mind the whole intent of 'off the shelf, proven design' is to save the effort of producing all the documents req'd to build a ship. Ie: all the metal pieces to cut, the wiring routing, the fittings placement, and on and on and on to include every step and item in the construction of a warship.

The actual underwater hull design is pretty similar between ships, with modern advances added as they become proven, like the stern flap to increase efficiency.

New doesn't mean different or improved. The electronics would be the latest on any ship design picked. The engines have already been decided. The weapons are going to be compatible with what we already have. The sensors might be unique, but they can be the latest on any ship picked.

I don't know all the things that were looked at, but it would be in the hundreds, if not thousands, with each item given a weighted average to come up with a total point count. If the type 26 got 89/100 and the Fremm got 87/100, the 26 would get picked first. Doesn't mean the 26 is superior or more advanced. Maybe it got more marks for having larger crew spaces or bigger meat lockers.

I'm over simplifying of course, just trying to show that when a government tries to decide what to buy with fairness and transparency as the primary drivers, the results are often controversial.

No matter what ship design is built, I have no doubt there will be teething pains and that the RCN will fix any issues that arise. That's what they do.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:29 am 
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The RCN probably wants a high end ASW capability. Type 26 , in theory, will be a state of the art platform for this so that might be the reason for it scoring the highest marks. It will be expensive so we will have to wait and see if the government decides that that is the final choice.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Admiral John Byng wrote:
The RCN probably wants a high end ASW capability. Type 26 , in theory, will be a state of the art platform for this so that might be the reason for it scoring the highest marks. It will be expensive so we will have to wait and see if the government decides that that is the final choice.


The RCN version won't be the same as the RN version. The cost is part of the initial bid. The actual capability is whatever Lockheed and company have selected for the system components.

The decision will be based on whatever was promised will be delivered for the price and time frame required.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:43 am 
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Admhawk wrote:
Admiral John Byng wrote:
The RCN probably wants a high end ASW capability. Type 26 , in theory, will be a state of the art platform for this so that might be the reason for it scoring the highest marks. It will be expensive so we will have to wait and see if the government decides that that is the final choice.


The RCN version won't be the same as the RN version. The cost is part of the initial bid. The actual capability is whatever Lockheed and company have selected for the system components.

The decision will be based on whatever was promised will be delivered for the price and time frame required.



While I agree that the RCN ships won't be fitted with the same equipment as the RN version, it would be strange if they are not being purchased for their ASW specialisation. The quieter hull and mountings would be an unnecessary expense if a simple general purpose frigate was needed.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:08 am 
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Admiral John Byng wrote:
The RCN probably wants a high end ASW capability.


The writer of this report seems to agree with you:

Defense News


Quote:
With Russia in its crosshairs, Canada moves to buy a sub hunter

By: David B. Larter   12 hours ago

PARIS — The Royal Canadian Navy is moving toward Britain’s Type 26 frigate design, a multimission ship designed to cut through the water quietly, hunt submarines, and defend against hostile missiles and aircraft.
The Canadian government announced mid-October that a team led by Lockheed Martin Canada had been selected as the “preferred designer.” That team was offering up British defense firm BAE Systems’ Type 26 design.
To some, the selection of the Type 26 design was a surprise given that Britain only just began cutting steel for the first one last summer, and as with any new ship and design, there is a high potential for cost overruns and delays.
But the Arctic nation’s selection of a ship that is a purpose-built sub hunter could be a sign that it is willing to accept those risks because of the strategic threat Russia poses to Canada’s interests at the rapidly thawing top of the world.


(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:07 am 
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.

With the prospect of the "North-West passage" being more open over the lives of these ships (and a possible source of tension, not least with the USA) will these ships be strengthened for service "up north" ?

I ASSUME that a bow mounted sonar is not a good idea for operating amongst ice floes ?

----------

Has the RCN got an idea for a future class of ice-capable ships to follow on from the Type 26's ?

.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:07 am 
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No. Canada is building a new arctic patrol fleet and icebreakers.

And being more 'open' means less ice, so less need for strengthened hulls.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:50 pm 
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As Darren said, we're already building Arctic patrol ships - six of them, capable of operating in the same ice thicknesses as all other Arctic states' armed ice-capable ships. They are the "warm-up" project for the shipyard before building the Type 26 (if it fully wins). Currently, there are no plans by any of the Arctic nations to build high-end warfare ice-capable ships. There is little expectation for the need for high-end warfare presence in the Canadian Arctic - despite alarmist reports, the majority of Arctic resources are already within each country's exclusive economic zone, and the remainder that's being debated on is within the central Arctic that's the least economically viable. As for Canada's Northwest Passage, Arctic ocean currents (especially the Beaufort Gyre) means that as ice melts, chunks of it will loosen and clog the Northwest Passage (little-known fact: not all sea ice is the same, and they melt at different rates with different results). This makes voyage in the area unpredictable and therefore of limited use in the current global economy as a reliable transit route. In contrast, the Russian Northern Sea Route ("Northeast Passage") is much more conducive to transits and has been used quite a bit more for that purpose (but still miniscule compared to Suez).

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:18 am 
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Who you calling Haijin? Tommy. :whistle:

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