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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:44 am 
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NOTE: This is an updated, re-titled thread. Please turn to the last page and scroll down for the latest updates.

The Harper government's current solution to deal with the RCN's supply ship gap: We're modifying the container ship M/V Asterix to do so. So we won't have to be borrowing Chile's AOR "Almirante Montt" much longer.

Navy Recognition

Quote:
L-3 MAPPS Selected by Chantier Davie Canada and Project Resolve for the
Royal Canadian Navy’s Interim Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (iAOR) Provision of Service


L-3 MAPPS announced today that Chantier Davie Canada Inc. and Project Resolve Inc. have selected its Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) for the conversion of the container vessel M.V. Asterix into an Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (AOR) ship for the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) interim supply ship capability.

L-3 MAPPS announced today that Chantier Davie Canada Inc. and Project Resolve Inc. have selected its Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) for the conversion of the container vessel M.V. Asterix into an Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (AOR) ship for the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) interim supply ship capability. Civilian container vessel M.V. Asterix will be converted into an Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (AOR) ship for the Royal Canadian Navy’s interim supply ship capability. Picture: Chantier Davie

“L-3 MAPPS is a recognized world leader in automation for naval vessels built to commercial marine as well as military standards and has extensive experience in ship upgrades for customers worldwide,” said Rangesh Kasturi, president of L-3 MAPPS. “We are pleased to be chosen by Chantier Davie and Project Resolve for this innovative project to support the RCN’s urgent requirements and we look forward to the implementation contract being finalized shortly. We have been very impressed with the ‘Team Canada’ approach for the project and are looking forward to making our contribution.”

“Project Resolve will provide the RCN with a critically important replenishment at-sea capability,” said Spencer Fraser, chief executive officer of Project Resolve Inc. “We are extremely proud to have assembled a pan-Canadian supply chain that will feature ‘best-of-breed’ naval technologies developed and produced here at home by Canadian personnel. L-3 MAPPS is a trusted partner with a fantastic pedigree of supporting the RCN and exporting Canadian naval technology worldwide. The company will be bringing a very modern and proven capability to our iAOR solution.”

L-3 MAPPS announced today that Chantier Davie Canada Inc. and Project Resolve Inc. have selected its Integrated Platform Management System (IPMS) for the conversion of the container vessel M.V. Asterix into an Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (AOR) ship for the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) interim supply ship capability. Computer rendering of the vessel after conversion. Picture: Chantier Davie

Using technology pioneered in Canada, the L-3 MAPPS IPMS provides comprehensive monitoring and control of a ship’s propulsion, electrical, ancillary, auxiliary and damage control machinery systems. With advanced functionality, such as the Battle Damage Control System, Onboard Team Training System, Equipment Health Monitoring System and CCTV, as well as integration with the ship’s combat management and navigation systems, the IPMS allows the crew to safely and effectively operate the ship for all mission requirements. L-3 MAPPS’ technology is used by 18 navies worldwide and is installed on most of the RCN’s major warships and submarines. The company also provides advanced Safety Management Systems for some of the world’s newest and largest cruise ships and naval auxiliary vessels.

(...SNIPPED)



Image
Civilian container vessel M.V. Asterix will be converted into an Auxiliary Oil Replenishment (AOR) ship
for the Royal Canadian Navy’s interim supply ship capability. Picture: Chantier Davie


Computer rendering of the vessel after conversion. Picture: Chantier Davie
Image

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Last edited by Haijun watcher on Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:28 am 
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.

So, will she be called C.F.A.V. * ?

Surely C.F.A.V. Obelix would have been a better choice as it could carry more ?

More seriously, it is odd that it looks like the whole rear superstructure will need to be replaced (and the funnel moved to enable the helicopter deck to be installed.

I hope it works and comes in on budget.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:43 am 
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Quote:
Surely C.F.A.V. Obelix would have been a better choice as it could carry more ?


Thanks for that!

Jack


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:45 pm 
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pgollin wrote:
Surely C.F.A.V. Obelix would have been a better choice as it could carry more ?


For those here who didn't get the reference to "Asterix the Gaul" cartoon series/comics. :heh:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:04 pm 
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An update on the future stopgap AOR Asterix.

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Asterix to be outfitted with HMCS Protecteur’s replenishment at sea system

Update: Asterix, the commercial ship purchased by Davie for Project Resolve, has reached Canada (I wrote earlier that it was on its way). Resolve will provide an interim AOR capability to the Royal Canadian Navy because of the delay in acquiring the Joint Support Ships (estimated time of arrival for the navy on the first JSS is 2020, 2021 for the second).

Davie and its team will refurbish Asterix into a refueling/resupply vessel and then provide this service to the RCN under a lease agreement.

Work is still being done on the final proposal and that still needs Treasury Board approval.

When will that approval happen?

It is unclear at this point.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:32 am 
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People should be smarter than this.... It's going to be one big waste of money. Yes the hull is made to be fast, but everything else is made to be cheap, crappy and definately not designed to carry oil or anything like it. Certainly not anything near military standard. Installing a completely new monitoring and control system etc. is going to cost a huge amount of money, money that could have been spent on a real replenisher. Would be shame if they would save 50 million from the real follow up and reduce its capabilities while this money was spent on this very sub-optimal stop-gap.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:42 pm 
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The oil will be carried in separate bladders/tanks put into the cargo hold.

Keep in mind our estimated cost for the two dedicated oilers is at $2.3B (and probably higher), so even though this conversion promises to come in at $250 million plus leasing costs, it'll still be significantly cheaper and should serve for the minimal 5 years that is our gap. Plus, we simply don't have the time or capability to build a dedicated new ship within the promised 17months...else we'd do the actual dedicated oilers sooner!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:09 am 
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yeah that'll be a great success for sure. Container ship "cargo holds" aren't built as holds. They aren't made to carry heavy loads in limited spaces. So adding a bladder, which is basically just that, a heavy weight in a limited space, requires quite a different contstruction, more the construction of a bulk carrier or LPG carrier. So in the end it'll require quite some reinforcements in the cargo compartments, something that won't be a easily undone after the job either. When it comes to bending moments and shear forces the same applies. Container ships are normally loaded in a very flexible way due to the large amount of small weights it is always manageable to keep forces on the hull within limits. When you fix a bladder or bladders inside one limited space, it becomes quite difficult to manage those forces, certainly with the limited ballast volume available on container ships.

2.3 billion is quite an excessive cost for two replenishers. However, as I mentioned before, if the cost is getting close to that mark, they'll try to save on really stupid issues, complicating the operation of the vessels, 250 million extra may make a big difference when it comes to that.

Point is, it would have been better to just cover the gap by surviving for a while without replenishers, take the shame of having a bad planning and come out with the best (new ships) solution afterwards. Or use a solution like the RN, buy a hull from a Korean yard and finish it to your liking. There won't be war anytime soon, and 2 replenishers wouldn't make that much of a difference if that war broke out after all (considering the possible opponents to Canada).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:35 pm 
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Can you take a look at the project website (http://projectresolve.ca/) and see if it sheds any light on your concerns? There has been very little (if any) criticisms about the conversion project itself, so it'll be great to see a more critical perspective on the issue.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:14 am 
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Neptune wrote:
There won't be war anytime soon, and 2 replenishers wouldn't make that much of a difference if that war broke out after all (considering the possible opponents to Canada).


Neptune,

It's not necessarily for any war that Canada will face alone, but more so Canada can maintain the maritime component of its NATO commitment. Without RAS/AOR capability, Canada just has less to bring to the table compared to other allies. Furthermore, the lack of an AOR also limits the operational range of our frigates without allies' RAS capability.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:45 am 
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The shame of not having a replacement ready continues to be felt:

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Canadian sailors to serve on Spanish
Navy supply ship during NATO exercise


DAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN
More from David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 10, 2015 | Last Updated: October 10, 2015 12:10 AM EDT

Twenty-eight Royal Canadian Navy sailors will be serving on a Spanish Navy supply ship during a major NATO exercise.

Spain’s Cantabria AOR has been identified as the ship the RCN is interested in leasing for next year to deal with the supply ship gap on Canada’s east coast.

A deal on that lease has yet to be reached with the Spanish Navy, says the RCN.

But RCN sailors will conduct training on the same ship during NATO’s TRIDENT JUNCTURE 15.

RCN spokesman Navy Lt. Len Hickey told Defence Watch that the training is focused on replenishment at sea activities as well as familiarity of engineering systems on the ship.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:13 am 
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Shame is just a perception. NATO commitments are just that as well. Send another frigate, some other member can release a frigate and send a replenisher instead if necessary.
Shame is a just a political thing and definately not worth throwing 250 million at to solve it... It would be a lot more responsible to take that shame and get over it in a smart way rather than this. Basically this is also why so many Western governments are into trouble. Short term planning/politics and later on nobody wants to admit it or really solve it. Instead they come up with expensive projects etc, which only makes the problem worse. However that is a just political thing, if they want to do and the taxpayers are ok with it, that's their problem.

From a technical point of view in reply to Timmy's post. The site is nice and all, but if you look at the project page it's awefully manipulative. The project page only shows the big, easy and cheap things, namely steel work. Although it will be done in an expensive way, by Canadian workers, it's not the main issue with this project. The really difficult things are hardly mentioned or written somewhere in the sideline. Installing "an additional means of propulsion" really isn't that easy in an already cramped engine room.
Also the main engine of this ship is made to go fast, like any merchant ship, that also means that its minimum speed is high (merchant ships often only have stop-dead slow ahead-slow ahead-half ahead-full ahead and navigation full ahead) and manoevrability very limited, not the best ship to make RAS with.
The addition of those tanks also means they'll be adding pumps, pipes, instrumention, instrumentation cabling and power cabling, hoping the ship's existing generators can produce the power needed for the additional fuel transfer pumps, cranes etc.

When it comes to forces, as mentioned it's going to get difficult, adding the weight of the helo deck and structure all the way aft (where the ship's shape does not really provide much buoyancy to support that) and the additional cover and cranes forward (with the same buoyancy problem) will create additional stress to that hull.
Another thing with little mentioning is what will happen to the existing container holds that are not used for fuel storage. These holds are typically open on top with big hatch covers and hatch coaming that are made to transfer the forces normally carried by a full deck (and its reinforcements), you can see a slight line-up of those covers in step 2 of the conversion plan, on step 3 those marking just dissappear.
From the looks of it they will completely change the deck and support structure, which isn't an easy job.

Looking at the timeframe and the additional stop-gap measure to potentially lease yet another ship, it would be better to order a new replenisher from a Korean yard (like UK did). They can build it in a considerably faster and more optimal way. And much more cost-effective, although when it comes to national (pride) projects that's often not a factor.
It's also remarkable that they would spend 250 million on a conversion and deem it sufficient for 5 years, while the follow up project would have a price tag of 4 times that much...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:33 pm 
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No 2nd stop-gap AOR conversion:

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Canada’s navy isn’t interested in a deal for second commercial fuel tanker to supply warships

DAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN
More from David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 15, 2015 | Last Updated: October 15, 2015 10:14 PM EDT

As Defence Watch readers know, the Asterix has arrived in Canada and is at Davie shipyards in Quebec, ready to undergo conversion into an interim supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy.

The ship will help the RCN deal with the supply ship gap (Canada no longer has any) until the Joint Support Ships arrive in 2020-2021.

A deal still has to be reached between the federal government and Davie/Project Resolve (the firm providing such services to the RCN).

But that is expected to be in place and ready to go by 2017.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:51 pm 
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Another graphic from Davie at the link below:

Source: RCN of Today and Yesterday Facebook Page

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Davie shipyards has just posted this picture ...

Image

... of the MV Asterix in Levis, ready to begin the conversion process to become our future interim AOR/oiler.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:13 pm 
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Canada's Liberal party back to their old wicked tricks despite PM Justin Trudeau's promise to fund the Navy:

"The more things change, the more they stay the same"
-Quark,
Ferengi bartender and swindler
Star Trek Deep Space 9

CBC

Quote:
Davie interim supply ship $700M deal delayed by Liberals
No supply ship would leave Canada unable to defend itself


By James Cudmore, CBC News Posted: Nov 20, 2015 5:34 AM ET Last Updated: Nov 20, 2015 8:11 AM ET

The new Liberal government is delaying approval of a deal to convert a civilian cargo ship into a badly needed military supply vessel, leading to concerns the plan will soon be scuttled and the navy will be left unable to properly defend Canada or deploy its force abroad.

Shipbuilder Chantier Davie had proposed a new-for-Canada plan to buy a cargo ship and turn it into an interim supply vessel able to support a Canadian naval task group at sea by providing fuel, food and ammunition.

The government signed a letter of intent earlier this year, and in October finalized a roughly $700-million, seven-year contract with Davie. The deal was dependent on cabinet approval, expected to flow out of a cabinet committee's meeting this week.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:18 am 
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Squabbling among Canadian shipbuilders over the interim AOR contract.

CBC
Quote:
Shipbuilding association calls Davie contract for navy supply ship 'fair'

$700M contract for a navy supply ship was to be finalized this month, but is now on hold


The industry group that represents Canada's shipbuilders has taken the extraordinary step of chastising a key Canadian shipyard for allegedly overstating its case in a growing spat over a government ship contract.

The Shipbuilding Association of Canada appeared Monday to rebuke Irving Shipbuilding Inc., saying it is surprised and disappointed over Irving's intervention in the government plan to have Chantier Davie build and operate an interim supply ship for Canada's navy.
The roughly $700-million contract with the Lévis, Que., shipbuilder has been finalized and was due for cabinet approval by the end of the month.

(...SNIPPED)


CBC

Quote:
Irving Shipbuilding fires back at shipbuilding association criticism
Shipbuilding Association of Canada says Irving is trying to delay Davie contract


By Jennifer Henderson, CBC News Posted: Nov 23, 2015 6:37 PM AT Last Updated: Nov 23, 2015 6:41 PM AT

The association that represents some Canadian shipbuilders says it's "surprised and disappointed" Halifax's Irving Shipbuilding Inc. is urging the Trudeau government to stall a contract previously awarded to a Quebec shipyard.

Chantier Davie Canada Inc. of Lévis, Que., wants to convert a civilian cargo ship into a badly needed military supply vessel that would provide fuel, food and ammunition to Royal Canadian Navy ships at sea.

CBC News reported last week that Irving Shipbuilding had sent letters for four cabinet ministers asking the new Liberal government to delay final approval of the $700-million Davie contract. The deal had been awarded by the Harper government during the October federal election campaign.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:47 am 
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more on the shipyards' squabbling over the AOR replacement:

Defense News


Quote:
Shipyards Clash Over Canadian Supply Ship Program
By David Pugliese
OTTAWA — A project to provide the Canadian Navy with a commercial
supply vessel has sparked a battle among US, British and Canadian-owned
shipyards, with accusations flying about a lack of competition for the
multimillion dollar deal.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:30 pm 
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Semi-related: The result of inept governments in Ottawa who still drag their feet on implementing the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy...

Qualified tradespeople for our shipyards who could be working on building the Queenston class AORs earlier are instead forced to go home.

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
End of Halifax-class frigate upgrade contract prompts layoff of 250 shipyard workers
David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
More from David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 25, 2016 | Last Updated: June 25, 2016 6:23 PM EDT


Some 250 workers have been laid off at Victoria Shipyards now that a multi-year contract for modernization of Halifax-class frigates is finished. At the same time the Esquimalt Graving Dock in Victoria, BC is being shut down for repair work until September, another factor in the layoffs.

Victoria Shipyards workers have been laid off during the past six weeks, Jonathan Whitworth, CEO of Seaspan, told the Times Colonist newspaper.

Seaspan is the owner of Victoria Shipyards which operates out of the graving dock owned by the Canadian government.


(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:04 am 
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Janes

Quote:
Sea Platforms
Canadian Resolve-class oiler refit proceeding on course
David Carl, Ottawa - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
31 October 2016

Shipbuilder Chantier Davie Canada's progress on a Resolve-class auxiliary oiler replenishment (AOR) vessel is proceeding ahead of schedule, Spencer Fraser, the CEO of Federal Fleet Services, told IHS Jane's on 26 October.

Davie is converting a former commercial vessel, owned by Federal Fleet Services, for the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN).

"The first stage of the project involved stripping the ship down to the gunnels and the engine room," Fraser said. "It is important to get the main structure completed before the weather turns this year, and we will make that deadline. The project is currently 60% complete, and Federal Fleet expects that the AOR will be delivered by September 2017 for sea trials."

(...SNIPPED)

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