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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:06 pm 
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NOTE: Re-titled thread. Please turn to the last page and scroll down for the latest updates.

I hope this talk of naval procurement by Canada's Liberal party isn't just talk...

Canadian Global Affairs Institute

Quote:
Mark Collins – RCN’s Canadian Surface Combatant Will be Foreign Design
November 20, 2015 Global Affairs Staff

Makes sense, the major European players are included plus one American:

Results of pre-qualification process for Canadian Surface Combatant

Public Services and Procurement Canada today announced the results of the pre-qualification process, the first step in the competitive procurement process to select a Combat Systems Integrator and a Warship Designer for the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC).

(...SNIPPED)

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Last edited by Haijun watcher on Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:38 pm 
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The Liberal party has always been anti-Military to their very core,
and always will be.I wouldn't put much stock in anything they say/
promise,etc.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:35 am 
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A notable update in advance of this week's upcoming Trudeau govt. budget: Let's see if this current govt. will put the money where their mouth is when it comes to promises of naval spending:

Globe and Mail

Quote:
Ottawa to face decisions on navy’s frigate replacement program

Murray Brewster

OTTAWA — The Canadian Press

Published Sunday, Mar. 20, 2016 9:15PM EDT

Last updated Sunday, Mar. 20, 2016 9:17PM EDT

The federal cabinet will soon be asked to make an initial down payment on the navy’s $104-billion frigate replacement program with an approval that will lay the groundwork for the new fleet, The Canadian Press has learned.


It will be asked not only to approve requirements for the new warships and cost tradeoffs, but also first-stage funding, which will allow defence planners to get the ball rolling.

But getting a revised cost estimate before the Liberal government has proven to be a painful exercise and budget planners at National Defence and the Finance Department engaged in a tug-of-war over projections ahead of Tuesday’s federal budget, several defence and government sources say.


(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:43 am 
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Of course, that $104 b figure includes 30 years' worth of operational and maintenance costs. Hate it when the media does that.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:35 am 
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I thought that seemed a bit steep!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:15 am 
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Delaying defense procurement seems to be a common policy play no matter who is in charge in Ottawa: Duh!

CBC

Quote:
Canada's defence budget heads back to the future
New Liberal budget puts off billions in defence spending to make numbers look better


By Terry Milewski, CBC News Posted: Mar 27, 2016 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 27, 2016 5:00 AM ET

(...SNIPPED)

In opposition, the Liberals were severely critical of the Conservatives' much-ballyhooed strategy to re-equip the Canadian military — just as the Conservatives condemned the preceding "decade of darkness" under the Liberals.

But neither government ever produced the ships and planes that both said were needed.

Now, the cycle is repeating like the chorus of the old song. Goodbye to the Conservatives' regular chest-thumping announcements that a new day was dawning for a threadbare military — and hello to the Liberals as their finance minister, Bill Morneau, does exactly what the late Jim Flaherty did for the Tories when he had the job.

Like Flaherty in 2012 and again in 2014, Morneau has now punted the budget for defence procurement down the road.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Chronicle Herald

Quote:
$26B for new fleet of warships 'notional': Foote
THE CHRONICLE HERALD
Published March 4, 2016 - 9:01pm
Last Updated March 5, 2016 - 11:18am

Minister admits original estimate won’t cover cost of building ships

The government doesn’t know how much its new fleet of warships will cost, how many vessels it will be able to build, or when they will be delivered.

In an interview with The Chronicle Herald on Friday, Public Services and Procurement Minister Judy Foote confirmed that the $26.2-billion figure announced by the Harper government to deliver up to 15 warships is no longer accurate.

“That budget was a notional amount, anybody looking at the numbers would question how you could possibly get up to 15 ships for $26.2 billion,” Foote said.

“You have to question the costing methodology.”

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:25 pm 
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More changes in paper, but no steel cut yet for these future warships:

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Public services minister to announce changes to Canadian Surface Combatant procurement strategy

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
More from David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 10, 2016 | Last Updated: June 10, 2016 4:36 PM EDT

Judy Foote, Minister of Public Services and Procurement, and John McKay, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, will be at Irving Shipyard in Halifax on Monday morning to release further details on the Canadian Surface Combatant.

Foote mentioned at CANSEC 2016 that the announcement on “refining the Canadian Surface Combatant procurement strategy” was coming.



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:02 pm 
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Well yeah, steel's not going to be cut until the last AOPS parts are done their first stage at the yard. Don't expect construction start until 2020 at best, though procurement of long-lead items may begin earlier.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Let's see if this ends up becoming just more talk:

Defense News

Quote:
Canada's Massive Surface-Combatant Program To Get Underway This Summer
David Pugliese, Defense News 8:44 p.m. EDT July 27, 2016
CANADA_NAVY
VICTORIA, British Columbia — The Canadian government will ask for bids as early as next month for the largest shipbuilding program in the country’s history, with the field of contenders for a new fleet of surface combatants expected to be dominated by European firms.

The project to build the Canadian Surface Combatant will see the selection of an existing warship design and combat system to reduce risk and speed up construction.

Procurement minister Judy Foote said the decision to base the warships on an existing vessel will allow the delivery of the ships two years earlier than could be expected with a new design.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:15 pm 
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Progress?

Chronicle Herald

Quote:
Irving issues warship RFPs — sub-trades invited to make proposals for design, systems
ANDREA GUNN OTTAWA BUREAU
Published August 19, 2016 - 4:22pm

The request for proposals for Canada’s new fleet of warships will be out within weeks.

Lisa Campbell, Assistant Deputy Minister of Defence and Marine Procurement at Public Services and Procurement Canada confirmed to the The Chronicle Herald Wednesday that Irving Shipbuilding — the prime contractor for the combat package of the National Shipbuilding Strategy and builder of the new Canadian Surface Combatants — will issue the final combined request for proposal (RFP) for a warship design and combat systems before the end of the summer.

This comes following what is expected to be final industry engagement meetings that took place in Halifax this week.

At the meeting, the 12 prequalified firms, or shortlisted request for proposal respondents — among them industry giants like Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, ThyssenKrupp, Navantia and DCNS — were given the final draft of the massive, 1,500 plus page proposal documents ahead of receiving the final version likely sometime in September. More than 80 suppliers have also been involved in a number of industry engagement meetings that haven't taken place in the last year.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:51 pm 
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National Post/Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Federal government’s plans to accept bids for future warships delayed over amount of Canadian content

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen | October 12, 2016 4:33 PM ET

OTTAWA — The Liberal government’s plan to accept bids for the navy’s future warships has been delayed because of a battle over the amount of Canadian content needed and the decision to allow into the competition a British design that exists only on paper.

Bids were to be requested from companies in August.

But a government spokesman now says the request is expected to go out to companies sometime “in the fall” although no specific date was given.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Haijun watcher wrote:
National Post/Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Federal government’s plans to accept bids for future warships delayed over amount of Canadian content

David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen | October 12, 2016 4:33 PM ET

OTTAWA — The Liberal government’s plan to accept bids for the navy’s future warships has been delayed because of a battle over the amount of Canadian content needed and the decision to allow into the competition a British design that exists only on paper.

Bids were to be requested from companies in August.

But a government spokesman now says the request is expected to go out to companies sometime “in the fall” although no specific date was given.

(...SNIPPED)



This whole Canadian Content BS is the bane of Canadian goverment procurement along with their public works ineptitude. All it does is delays and drives up costs. Its not like we have "state of the art" components and services that significantly more effective vs others to the point of spending so much more for it. The only reason for CC is to appease the unions and "create jobs", which has proven incompetent anyways judging by the poor worksmanship of the "new" coast guard vessels and the shipyards' inability to make any decisions. One has to wonder why sometimes other countries can procure so much more for so much less vs Canada. At this rate who gives a f_ck how much or how little CC there is. They need replacements now! (see article)

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the- ... dian-navy/


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:00 pm 
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Let's see if Trudeau Jr. will put money where his mouth is when it comes to promises of increased naval spending:

Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Industry reps expect Canadian Surface Combatant announcement
David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen

Published on: October 19, 2016 | Last Updated: October 19, 2016 1:51 PM EDT

Industry representatives are expecting that the request for proposals for the Canadian Surface Combatant will be released soon…..they say the announcement could come on Thursday.

The release of the RFP had been delayed (it was supposed to come in August). Industry reps had voiced concerns about the RFP and the lack of work for Canadian companies on this massive shipbuilding program. Whether the situation will/has been corrected remains to be seen.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:50 pm 
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A belated update:

Macleans

Quote:
Feds to launch design competition for new warships

The competition involves 12 of the largest defence and shipbuilding companies in the world—and will launch after years of debate, delays and hand-wringing


Lee Berthiaume , The Canadian Press

October 25, 2016

OTTAWA — The federal government is poised to fire the starting gun on the long-awaited, multibillion-dollar race to design and build the navy’s newest warships.

The competition, which involves 12 of the largest defence and shipbuilding companies in the world, is expected to be launched on Thursday after years of debate, delays and hand-wringing.

Companies will be given six months to submit designs for a new warship which will replace the navy’s 12 frigates and its three recently retired destroyers.


The winning design, pegged by one source as worth upwards of $10 billion out of a project that’s expected to cost between $26 billion and $40 billion, will be built by Irving Shipyards in Halifax, with the first ship scheduled to hit the water in 2024.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Government launches key warship project without an idea of how many vessels will be built or what they will cost
David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen

Published on: October 27, 2016 | Last Updated: October 28, 2016 12:01 AM EDT


The Canadian Surface Combatant project has officially kicked off with the request for proposals sent out to industry. The winning ship design is expected to be selected by summer 2017, the government says.

But federal officials still have no clue how many ships will be built. Originally the program was to produce 15 or 16 vessels. That was changed. The phrase now used by government is “up to 15.”

Construction of the first Canadian Surface Combatant is to begin in the early 2020s. But no one knows how exactly many ships will be built….nor do government officials seem too concerned. “One of the things we need not do right now is decide the number of ships,” said Patrick Finn, assistant deputy minister, materiel, at the Department of National Defence.

(...SNIPPED)


Ottawa Citizen

Quote:
Government backtracks on demand that firms stay silent on Canadian Surface Combatant program
David Pugliese, Ottawa Citizen

Published on: October 28, 2016
Judy Foote is the minister of Public Services and Procurement.


Industry representatives were stunned by a new decree from Public Services and Procurement Canada that would have prevented any communication to the public about the Canadian Surface Combatant program. No advertising. No press releases issued announcing that a firm was even interested in bidding on the program. No discussions about what a company could offer and the jobs it could provide to Canadians.

“Neither the bidders, nor any of their respective subcontractors, employees or representatives shall make any public comment, respond to questions in a public forum or carry out any activities to either criticize another bidder or any bid — or publicly advertise their qualifications,” noted the order to industry.

Why put a clause like that in the bidding package? Sources say the Canadian Surface Combatant process has major problems. There are concerns in some quarters the outcome of the program has already been determined. And the Canadian government doesn’t want industry talking about such concerns – or anything related to the procurement, sources say. It just wants to spend tens of billions of dollars without any pesky questions from opposition MPs, the media and taxpayers, some industry representatives worry.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:59 am 
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At least one of the other bidding shipbuilders complained that the BAE Type 26 design is an untested, unbuilt platform that seems to be preferred even though Minister Foote said only tried, tested platforms will be chosen, if I can recall correctly.

UK Defence Journal

Quote:
UK hopeful Canada will opt for Type 26 Frigate
By
George Allison -
January 30, 2017


Speculation is mounting that Canada is seriously considering the Type 26 Frigate for its ‘Canadian Surface Combatant’ project.

Anne Healey, BAE General Manager (Group Business Development Canada) said, referring to a BAE bid to sell the Type 26 in Canada:

“The Type 26 Global Combat Ship is the world’s newest and most advanced surface combatant design. We are planning to cut steel in 2017, which is ideal timing for the CSC programme; being 3 years ahead of the Canadian program.”

According to local media, industry sources say the Request for Purchase has been delayed because of questions raised about the amount of Canadian content and the decision to consider the Type 26.


(...SNIPPED)




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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:32 am 
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The Type 26 has become very expensive. The British government has cut the numbers it will be ordering and delayed the initial order so it is hardly showing confidence in the design. I suspect that as usual the British design will prove to be too costly for foreign navies who mostly seem to manage a better balance of value for money.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:43 am 
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Admiral John Byng wrote:
The Type 26 has become very expensive. The British government has cut the numbers it will be ordering and delayed the initial order so it is hardly showing confidence in the design. I suspect that as usual the British design will prove to be too costly for foreign navies who mostly seem to manage a better balance of value for money.


Hasn't Chile bought ex-RN Type 23s in the past? Perhaps they might be eyeing the Type 26 soon as well.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:47 am 
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DavidP wrote:
The Type 26 should not be part of the bidding war as not even built yet & with the Type 45 engines problems is not a proven design.


Which design do you prefer? Absalon? FREMM?

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