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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Fascinating!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Type 26 design rejected by USN:

Forecast International

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SOMETIMES, IT'S WHAT THEY DON'T SAY
Tuesday, March 13, 2018

Source: Lockheed Martin

NEWTOWN, Conn. -- The US Navy has awarded five concept development contracts for the new FFX program. The $15M contracts were awarded to General Dynamics Bath Iron Works (offering an F-100 derivative), Fincantieri Marine (the Italian version of FREMM), Huntington Ingalls (their own frigate design), Austal USA (an LCS-2 derivative), and Lockheed Martin (an LCS-1 derivative).

The FFX program envisages the development of a larger, more heavily armed successor to the Littoral Combat Ship classes. The five selected designs, three developed in the US and two in Europe, represent developments of proven designs. The two European ships are already in service with a variety of navies and are well-regarded by their operators. The two LCS-derived designs are enlarged variants of the original classes in which the mission module equipment is permanently installed rather than being part of a reconfigurable ship package. The HII design is a derivative of the National Security Cutter built for the US Coastguard.

However, the interesting part of this development is not who got the contract but who didn't. Seven designs were proposed as candidates for concept development contracts. The two bids that were rejected at this point were the Atlas USA/TKMS offering a F-125 derivative and a BAE Systems bid offering the Royal Navy Type 26 frigate. Although no official reason for their failure to win a contract has been advanced, the well-publicized electronics and stability problems with the F-125 may have cost it a place in a program where the key words have been "avoid technical risk." As an unproven design that has barely started construction, it would appear that the level of technical risk in the Type 26 design may have been regarded as too high.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Powerpoint presentation:
FFG(X) Update
National Symposium - Surface
Navy Association
Dr. Regan Campbell
January 9, 2018

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Defence Aerospace

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Navy Frigate (FFG[X]) Program: Background and Issues for Congress
(Source: Congressional Research Service; issued April 6, 2018)
The Navy in 2017 initiated a new program, called the FFG(X) program, to build a class of 20 guided-missile frigates (FFGs). The Navy wants to procure the first FFG (X) in FY2020, the second in FY2021, and the remaining 18 at a rate of two per year in FY2022
-FY2030. The Navy’s proposed FY2019 budget requests $134.8 million in research and development funding for the program.

Although the Navy has not yet determined the design of the FFG(X), given the capabilities that the Navy’s wants the FFG(X) to have, the ship will likely be larger in terms of displacement, more heavily armed, and more expensive to procure than the Navy’s Littoral Combat Ships (LCSs).
The Navy envisages developing no new technologies or systems for the FFG(X)—the ship is to use systems and technologies that already exist or are already being developed for use in other programs.

The Navy’s desire to procure the first FFG(X) in FY2020 does not allow enough time to develop a completely new design (i.e., a clean-sheet design) for the FFG(X). Consequently, the Navy intends to build the FFG(X) to a modified version of an existing ship design—an approach called the parent-design approach. The parent design could be a U.S. ship design or a foreign ship design. The Navy intends to conduct a full and open competition to select the builder of the FFG(X).

(...SNIPPED)


Navy Recognition

Quote:
SAS 2018: Navantia Opens U.S. Office to Support its FFG(X) Bid

Posted On Tuesday, 10 April 2018 04:11

Spanish shipbuilder Navantia announced during Sea Air Space 2018 that it is opening U.S. based office to strenghten its relationship with the U.S.

SAS 2018 Navantia Opens U.S. Office to Support its FFGX Bid GD BIW and Navantia will use as a reference design the Hobart class AWD, the Australian variant of the F-100 frigate, and adapt it to the requirements of the U.S. Navy.

The United States represent a strategic country for Navantia with a history of more than 4 decades of fruitful cooperation with US defence industries such as Lockheed Matin, General Dynamics BIW, Raytheon and General Elecric.

One of the key projects for Navantia is its participation in the FFG(X) program in partnership with GD BIW. In this program GD BIW and Navantia will use as a reference design the Hobart class AWD, the Australian variant of the F-100 frigate, and adapt it to the requirements of the U.S. Navy. The F-100 Bazan-class frigate is the only ship of its type that has a proven track record of being built in different shipyards in different countries. There are currently 11 units in service (Spanish, Norwegian and Australian variants combined), with an expected total of 13 units operating in 2019.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Fincatieri's pitch:

Defense News

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Video: Why enter a foreign design into an American shipbuilding competition?

Fincantieri Marine Group's CEO explains to Defense News why the company is entering a modified version of the European FREMM frigate in the Navy's FFG (X) competition. (Staff)

(FULL VIDEO AT LINK ABOVE)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Defense News

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Who will build the next frigate?
By: Jeff Martin   7 hours ago

Jerry Hendrix of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments breaks down the U.S. Navy’s frigate competition. (Staff)

(FULL VIDEO INTERVIEW AT LINK ABOVE)

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Two articles, including a belated one from earlier last month:

Defense News

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U.S. Navy wants future ship killing missile for its new frigate: Raytheon
By: David B. Larter   37 minutes ago

The new missile, which Navy is looking to award the program by the end of the Summer, is part of an effort to make the Navy’s LCS more survivable against high-end competitors such as Russia and China. Thomas Kennedy, Raytheon’s chief executive officer, said in an earnings call that the Raytheon/Kongsberg submission known as the Naval Strike Missile is in a strong position for both LCS and for the future frigate.

“This is a program where, Raytheon and Kongsberg, as a team, we submitted a proposal for something what’s called – we called The Naval Strike Missile, which is the Navy’s over-the-horizon weapon system that they need to put on the LCS, but turns out they’re also going to put them on all the Future Frigates,” Kennedy said.

(...SNIPPED)


Fox News

Quote:
Armed Forces
April 4th
Navy seeks new advanced sensors, weapons for new frigate
By Warrior Maven | Fox News

The Navy envisions a new multi-mission Guided Missile Frigate able to sense enemy targets from great distances, fire next-generation precision weaponry, utilize new networking and ISR technologies, operate unmanned systems and succeed against technically advanced enemies in open or “blue” water combat, according to service statements.

The service is now refining and analyzing design, sensor and weapons concepts for the new ship, called the FFG(X), as it moves into a formal Conceptual Design phase after awarding a major contract.

Naval Sea Systems Command recently chose five shipbuilders to advance designs and technologies for the ship, awarding development deals to General Dynamics Bath Iron Works, Austal USA, Huntington Ingalls, Marinette Marine Corporation and Lockheed Martin.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 2:57 pm 
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A closer look at the FREMM as an FFG(X) contender:

Defense News

Quote:
We spent 3 days on a top FFG(X) contender. Here’s what you need to know.
By: David B. Larter   1 hour ago

ABOARD THE ITALIAN FREMM ALPINO, Atlantic Ocean – The Italian Navy’s anti-submarine warfare FREMM Alpino is in the United States on a tour of the East Coast.

(...SNIPPED)

Takeaways

The ship is pretty darn cool: It’s built to fight, has plenty of power to go around. An AEGIS version of the FREMM being pitched by Fincantieri has an even greater power capacity.

It is very quiet. Compared with the Ticonderoga-class cruisers and, Arleigh Burkes, there is just very little in the way of ambient noise, and there is almost no noise in the berthings. Even the engine room is quiet enough that hearing protection is not required to enter.

The ship has also integrated a ton of technologies that cuts down on manning
. Foremost among them is the damage control system but there are others. For instance, during underway replenishment the lines are reeled in with winches rather than with a team of line handlers as is done on U.S. Navy ships.

There are a couple of things on this version of the FREMM that would make the U.S. Navy uncomfortable in terms of design.

(...SNIPPED)


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Quote:
There are a couple of things on this version of the FREMM that would make the U.S. Navy uncomfortable in terms of design.
oh, I’m sure it doesn’t measure up to LCS standards... :roll_eyes:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:06 pm 
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Business Insider

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We toured the heavily-armed and stealthy warship that may be the US Navy's next frigate
Daniel Brown
16h

The US Navy announced in February that five types of warships would compete for a bid to supply the branch with 20 next-generation guided-missile frigates.

And last week, we got to tour one of those five frigates: Fincantieri's FREMM Alpino, a ship outfitted with anti-submarine systems.

"The world has changed certainly in the last two years when you take look at what Russia is doing and what China is doing," retired Admiral Rick Hunt, who now works for Fincantieri, told Business Insider on the ship's bridge. "And frankly, I think that means we got to up the game of the high-low mix that we have traditionally held," Hunt said.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:43 pm 
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A belated report from last week:

Defense News

Quote:
Has the US Navy thought this new frigate through? New report raises questions.
By: David B. Larter   8 hours ago
WASHINGTON ― The U.S. Navy is rapidly moving toward procuring the first hull in its new class of frigate in 2020, but a new report is raising questions about whether the Navy has done detailed analysis about what it needs out of the ship before barging ahead.

The Navy may not have done an adequate job of analyzing gaps and capabilities shortfalls before it set itself on a fast-track to buying the so-called FFG(X) as an adaptation from a parent design, said influential Navy analyst Ron O’Rourke in a new Congressional Research Service report.

In essence, the CRS report questions whether the Navy looked at what capabilities the service already has in the fleet, what capabilities it’s missing and whether the FFG(X) is the optimal solution to address any identified shortfalls.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:31 am 
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I hope the USN is looking for a hull that can take new technologies when they are available even though it has ruled out designing a ship around them. I fear for this programme. What may come out of it is a ship that nobody will be pleased with.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:11 pm 
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The frigates are the low end of the USN surface fighting ship mix. They are not for new technologies - if there will be new technologies (which is not sure, there are talks about e.g. lasers since decades), they would likely require ships with a significant power surplus. That would be a reason why new designs for high end surface fighting ships are needed.

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Last edited by maxim on Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:19 pm 
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just like the OHP where the low end compared to the Spruance that where high end when both introduced in the 70's.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:44 pm 
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I think the standards set out in the RFI were perfectly reasonable to have a significantly capable multi-role ship at a reasonable cost.

While is is not inaccurate to think of this as 'High-Low' in regards to cost, it may be better to think "Tall and Wide" where the FFG will add width to the area of influence of the US Navy, and across the area of influence when higher point capability is needed, the 'tall' can come in - be that a Burke, ARG, or CVBG.

Placing Enterprise Air Search Radar (EASR) with the Aegis backbone allows each of these vessels to operate independently while reasonably well protected and integrate into fleet and group operations very well. They become a significant node in the broad network of sensors and capability.

My gripes with the items set out in the RFI are minor (endurance too low, is 57mm really the right choice...?)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:17 pm 
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SumGui wrote:
I think the standards set out in the RFI were perfectly reasonable to have a significantly capable multi-role ship at a reasonable cost.

While is is not inaccurate to think of this as 'High-Low' in regards to cost, it may be better to think "Tall and Wide" where the FFG will add width to the area of influence of the US Navy, and across the area of influence when higher point capability is needed, the 'tall' can come in - be that a Burke, ARG, or CVBG.

Placing Enterprise Air Search Radar (EASR) with the Aegis backbone allows each of these vessels to operate independently while reasonably well protected and integrate into fleet and group operations very well. They become a significant node in the broad network of sensors and capability.

My gripes with the items set out in the RFI are minor (endurance too low, is 57mm really the right choice...?)

Indeed, I believe that if an Ambassador III or a Visby cannot be procured, the Corvette version of the PC must be. It would be a Cyclone lengthened by 30' to 209'. That would afford a 76mm main gun, 4-8 Harpoons, and a CIWS apability. Today, that would be a 76mm SR gun, 4-8 Harpoons/ASCMs, and a SeaRAM mount aft with a Mk38 Mod2 port and starboard with a large number of crew served weapons mounts. That would be a simple and maintainable ship.

This is a big question toward the PC(R) already going. Would this be able to address that concern as well! I see the PC(R) as a 2 ship class, one as a Cyclone Plus class as above and one as a Hayabusa Plus class where the Hayabysa is an ASCM and short range AAW platform with SeaRAM but the Cyclone being ASW and ASuW. For more information on those variants, see my PC(R) thread.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:57 pm 
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I would have thought that such a small corvettes would not have the range and seakeeping abilities required for the US Navy. Such ships are built for coastal defence - not really a topic for the US Navy.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:37 am 
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maxim wrote:
I would have thought that such a small corvettes would not have the range and seakeeping abilities required for the US Navy. Such ships are built for coastal defence - not really a topic for the US Navy.

No, I apologize. I am not saying a corvette can take the place of an FFG. The Corvette thing can fill issues of the Persian Gulf, the PI, the Caribbean. The FFG should be a full up Perry replacement.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:13 am 
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I.e. coastal defence plus coastal attack?

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