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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:18 pm 
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But if the F110 is ruled out, then there is no US (and e.g. also no British) design eligible. The F110 is based on a family of designs of three existing classes with in total 11 ships in service in three navies.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:55 pm 
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carr wrote:
SumGui wrote:
Or the pending new F110 design, which seems to basically have an F100 series hull

The Navy has made it clear that the parent design must be a vessel actually produced and at sea with demonstrated performance. That makes the F110 ineligible but that doesn't prevent the F100 from being proposed with F110 modifications.


As covered in the statement, the F110 is based on a proven seaframe, and BIW/Navatia can easily market the F110 as a development of the proven F100 series, every much the proven seaframe as a modified NSC.

The F110 is in no way ineligible under the tenants of the RFP.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:12 pm 
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Last edited by carr on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:11 pm 
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If the F110 would not eligible, which designs are eligible? Anything based on a LCS or Legend class would be also not eligible, because the frigate design would be as different as F110 is to F100.

Possible designs would German, Danish, French or Italian...

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Last edited by carr on Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:48 am 
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The F110 is based on F100, on which is also the Nansen und Hobart class is based - 11 ships in service. It has a parent design in active service. A frigate based on the LCS is also not existing. For sure the LCS, on which the design is based, exists. Therefore my question...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:21 pm 
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More on how the USN is not satisfied with the LCS and how the FFG(X) would satisfy its need:

Defense News

Quote:
Navy wants small warships that pack a bigger punch
By: David Sharp, The Associated Press   2 hours ago

BATH, Maine — The Navy’s fast-and-maneuverable littoral combat ship was criticized for lacking enough firepower and armor to survive a maritime battle. The Navy is addressing those concerns with a new class of small-but-powerful frigates that will pack a bigger punch.

The Navy asked this month for concept proposals for multi-mission warships that would be bigger and more heavily armed — and slower — than the littoral combat ships. They would be capable of shooting down airplanes, attacking other ships and countering submarines.

“The Navy has decided that speed is less important than having a warship with sufficient weapons to defend itself,”
said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst with the Lexington Institute.

The Navy, which wants to build 20 frigates, is seeking an affordable design, and its directive calls for shipbuilders to use an existing design to expedite the process. The aggressive timetable calls for conceptual proposals next month. The first two ships are to be procured in 2020 and 2021.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:00 pm 
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“The Navy has decided that speed is less important than having a warship with sufficient weapons to defend itself,”

Duh. The purpose of a warship is to take weapons to sea. The LCS makes me sad.

Still want to see a 5" gun on the FFG(X).

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:57 pm 
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How does this compare to the Perry class FFGs when they first came out?

Defense News

Quote:
The Navy's next-generation frigate comes with a big price tag
By: David B. Larter   20 hours ago

The Navy’s next-generation frigate could end up costing just shy of a billion dollars per hull, the Naval Sea Systems Command program manager said Tuesday.

Regan Campbell said the Navy had set an upper limit of $950 million per ship, about half the cost of a Flight IIA Arleigh Burke-class destroyer and nearly double the cost of the littoral combat ship. USNI News was first to report the Navy’s cost estimate.

Moving forward on the FFG(X) is among the Navy’s top priorities in 2018. The ship is slated to have between 16 and 32 vertical-launch missile tubes and an over-the-horizon, anti-surface missile capability.

The cost estimate surprised some analysts, who thought the number might be lower given previous signals from the Navy. The price tag could also push out some of the high-profile contenders who were interested in the bid.
(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Breaking Defense

Quote:
Frigate Design Awards By April; $950M Max, VLS Mandatory
By Sydney J. Freedberg Jr. on January 09, 2018 at 4:00 PM

UPDATED with CNO comment on importance of program CRYSTAL CITY: By the end of March, the Navy will award four to six contracts for “conceptual” designs of a future frigate. That ship that must cost under $950 million, have “Grade A shock hardening” on key systems to survive blasts, and carry at least 16 Vertical Launch System cells to defend itself and nearby vessels, program manager Regan Campbell told the Surface Navy Association conference here.

Those requirements, among many others, demand a much more formidable and more expensive vessel than the current, controversial Littoral Combat Ship. They make winning harder for the builders of the two existing LCS variants — Marinette Marine’s Freedom monohull and Austal’s Independence trimaran — which are making ships for under $500 million apiece that lack VLS and heavy-duty shock hardening. On the other hand, that $950 million maximum may be a challenge for the larger and more capable foreign frigates in the competition.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 pm 
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The quoted $950m per ship is probably the right number to generate a reasonable vessel to conduct the missions and send people into harms way.

Approximately half the price of a DDG-51 IIA which is DEEP in production process so is as cheap as it is going to be.

The 'double the price of the LCS' chant ignored that the LCS is delivered without warfare systems (mission modules which STILL are not complete), and we are doing this because the LCS cannot do this Frigate job.....so saying my pickup truck costs more than my Toyota Corolla......not really germane, but it makes for generating clicks on a website because I am manipulating your emotional reactions with intentionally counterfactual information.


Compare slide 4 with the equipment and capability resident in the LCS as delivered and tell me if you believe the comparison between cost of LCS and FFGX is valid:

https://news.usni.org/2018/01/11/docume ... e-briefing


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Article on LM's submission for FFGX (great pics):

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... esign.html


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 pm 
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More:

Janes

Quote:
Surface Navy 2018: Austal USA, Lockheed Martin detail frigate derivatives
Michael Fabey - Jane's Navy International
11 January 2018

Austal USA and Lockheed Martin officials said they are offering basic designs for the new US Navy (USN) guided-missile frigate FFG(X) that closely match those of their Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) templates with some key differences to increase lethality, survivability, and multimission potential.

Representatives from both companies told Jane’s on 10 January at the 30th annual Surface Navy Association National Symposium that they used their basic LCS schematics for the FFG(X) proposals they submitted in December to meet the USN’s stipulation to use existing parent designs for a small surface combatant that can be modified to accommodate FFG(X) requirements. By “mature parent designs” the USN said it means a ship design that has been through production and “demonstrated [full scale]” at sea.

Another shipbuilder also vying for the FFG(X) is Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII), which has mature parent designs for existing ship programmes. However, HII officials declined requests to speak about the frigate completion.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Defense News

Quote:
Navy awards design contracts for future frigate
By: David B. Larter   3 hours ago

WASHINGTON —The Navy has awarded $15 million contracts to five companies for conceptual designs for the FFG(X) program.

Huntington Ingalls, Lockheed Martin, Austal USA, General Dynamics Bath Iron Works, and Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri have all been asked to submit mature designs over the next 16 months before the Navy drops down to a single detailed design and construction contract.

All the contracts contain options that could grow the value to between $22 million and $23 million, according to the contract announcement. The work is expected to be complete by June, 2019.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:06 am 
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That means now there are variants of the Coast Guard cutter of the Legend class, of the LCS of the Freedom and Independence class, the Italian FREMM and the Spanish F110 possible. For sure one of last two are likely the best frigate design. I still cannot imagine how one of the race boat designs (LCS) can be converted into a proper warship.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:42 am 
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The Navy is so lost. It can’t figure out a 155mm gun. It can’t figure out an FFG. It can’t figure out the Riverine thing. It’s so confused with the “revolutionary” technology and does not realize the concept has failed horribly. Turds.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:10 am 
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The F110 and FREMM are good FFGs, the Legend class variant could be ok. And anyway: we talking about the concept of a navy with more ships in a state, which has even less state income because of the massive tax cuts. The frigate has to be cheap, both in acquisition and operation (e.g. much smaller crews than in the current cruisers and destroyers).

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Thoughts, Maxim? You mentioned the F-100 design earlier in this thread.

Defence Aerospace

Quote:
Navantia Selected for the Conceptual Design Phase of the US Navy’s Frigate Program
(Source: Navantia; issued Feb 19, 2018)
(Issued in Spanish; unofficial translation by Defense-Aerospace.com)

Navantia has been selected by the United States Government, together with its local partner the American shipyard General Dynamics Bath Iron Works, for the Conceptual Design phase of the FFGX frigate program.

The objective of the FFGX program is the acquisition of 20 frigates with local construction in the USA, the reference design being that of the Australian frigate AWD class Hobart, itself derived from the F-100 class. Navantia and GD Bath Iron Works will adapt this design to the requirements of the US Navy.

The Conceptual Design contract will have a duration of 16 months, at the end of which the bid for the selection of the 20 frigates constructor, scheduled for 2020, will be presented.

The FFGX program will equip the United States Navy Fleet Command with adequate capacity to achieve the objectives of sea control and maritime security operations, in addition to allowing support for naval combat groups and other support operations to the fleet.

(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:20 am 
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The F100 type would be the logical favourite - it is a proven frigate design (in contrast to the LCS and the Legend based designs) and the already built ships have mainly USN systems installed (in contrast to the FREMM).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:35 pm 
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maxim wrote:
(in contrast to the FREMM).


And speaking of the FREMM:

Defence Aerospace

Quote:
US Navy Awards Concept Design Contract to Fincantieri to Evolve FREMM Into FFG(X)
(Source: Fincantieri; issued Feb 19, 2018)
TRIESTE, Italy --- The US Navy awarded Fincantieri’s subsidiary Marinette Marine a $15M contract to evolve its FREMM-design into the next-generation frigate of the FFG(X) program.

Currently, six FREMM frigates are in service with the Italian Navy and have successfully completed multi-role missions world-wide. The units of the FREMM class have also been chosen in Australia for the final stage of the SEA5000 tender to acquire 9 Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigates for the Royal Australian Navy.

Fincantieri Marinette Marine has teamed with Gibbs & Cox and Trident Maritime Systems to evolve FREMM to U.S. design standards. This wholly American team will develop a ship design, which, in case of award of the construction contract, would be built at Fincantieri shipyards in the US, where, over the past 9 years the company has developed a highly skilled workforce, an extensive supply chain and expertise in building ships to US Navy standards.

(...SNIPPED)

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