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Admiral John Byng
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:38 am 
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You also have to take into account what they are spending their money on. The Russian army is being reformed into an offensive fighting force. While it can also undertake defensive operations it is developing its air-mobile forces and increasing the number of transport aircraft so that large numbers of troops can be deployed rapidly outside of its national borders.

They are reforming the pioneer units and creating new ones, to make them both larger and more effective in the assault role.

Russia's Ground Forces also has a number of units that are quite different from their NATO counterparts. One of the most alarming factors in Russia's extremely aggressive military and political stance is the enormous increase in CBRN (Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear defence) units' strength. In addition to independent CBRN brigades, there is a CBRN regiment in each of the eleven field armies and also a few detached CBRN companies.

Unlike in NATO, these units are not merely defensive, they have an assault role and one company in each battalion is equipped with TOS-1 and TOS_1A rocket firing tanks and handheld flamethrowers.

The expenditure of a large amount of money and resources on such troops suggests that Russia believes it can fight and win a nuclear war. This kind of thinking is what makes Putin and his cronies so dangerous.

Remember also that Russia's military policies are not simply concerned with defending Russia, they are used to bolster the political power of its leader in a way that no other major power (apart from possibly China) does.

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maxim
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:29 am 
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Yes, but Russia still has much smaller military compared to NATO and we are now really far away from the topic of this thread.

It would fit better to the topic that the US Navy now deploys small nuclear weapons (W76-2 warheads) on their ballistic submarines - obviously also very dangerous, if someone thinks it would be ok to use such "low-yield" weapons of mass destruction:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a30708035/w76-2-nuclear-weapon-submarine/

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Admiral John Byng
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:50 am 
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Yes, I am not sure why anyone would want to equip a ballistic missile with such a small warhead. It would be very worrying if the US is responding to Russian tactical nukes with this.

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maxim
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:26 am 
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The dangerous element of these small warheads is that someone could deploy them - not in response to an attack with such an warhead, but to achieve some political goal. I will not comment on the head of the government responsible for this decision to equip US ballistic submarines with such warheads.

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navydavesof
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:06 pm 
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Cruiser built hulls. That might begin design changes.

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:41 am 
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maxim wrote:
apparently there is still no funding for it.


and speaking again of budget issues...

Defense News

Quote:
The US Navy wants more ships but can’t afford them, admiral says
By: David B. Larter   2 hours ago
WASHINGTON – The US Navy’s fiscal year 2021 budget slashes 10 planned ships over the next five years, a move a senior Navy official said shows a commitment to not hollow out the service to buy ships.
Just hours after Defense News reported Defense Secretary Mark Esper’s backing of a 355-ship fleet by the year 2030, the Navy rolled out a budget that would grow the fleet by just 11 ships over the next five years.
The fleet today stands at 294 ships, according to the Navy’s website, and the current budget would bring the force to 305 ships by the end of the future-year defense program, or FYDP.
That would leave the Navy scrambling to add 50 ships to the battle force over five years starting in 2026, just as the Columbia-class ballistic missile submarine enters serial production and is expected to eat as much as 40 percent of the Navy’s shipbuilding account.
(...SNIPPED)

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:42 pm 
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And the "Congress critters" aren't happy:

Military.com


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Navy Plans to Cut Shipbuilding Budget Face Swift Pushback on Capitol Hill
The Virginia-class attack submarine Minnesota (SSN 783) is under construction at Huntington Ingalls Newport News Shipbuilding. (U.S. Navy/courtesy of Newport News Shipbuilding)
11 Feb 2020
Military.com | By Gina Harkins
Lawmakers are hitting back against the Navy's plans to cut shipbuilding over the next several years just hours after the service presented its 2021 budget request.
Navy officials announced Monday plans to spend $16.4 billion on eight ships in 2021 -- a more than $5 billion drop from the 12 hulls it bought last year. The Navy also laid out plans to buy a total of 44 ships over the next five years. This time last year, the Navy was planning to buy 55 new ships by 2024.
(...SNIPPED)

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:03 pm 
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Defense News


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Trump called for a 350-ship fleet, but his budget falls short of even Obama-era goals
By: David B. Larter
February 25 at 11:52 AM
WASHINGTON — Despite campaigning on a 350-ship Navy, U.S. President Donald Trump is on track to leave office with a fleet smaller than the 308 ships called for by the Obama administration.
For much of the last administration, the goal was for 305-308 ships, and only in the very late days of Barack Obama’s presidency did a Navy force structure assessment raise the goal to 355 ships. With its latest budget submission, which projects all the way through a hypothetical second term for Trump, the Navy grows to 305 ships.
An examination of the first four budgets compiled by the Trump administration, including one from 2017 that was amended and submitted to Congress by Trump after his inauguration, shows the president proposed a modest 8 percent increase in ship numbers compared to the last four budgets proposed by the Obama administration.
Between the 2013 and 2016 budgets, the Obama administration proposed 34 ships, while between 2017 and 2020, the Trump administration proposed 37.
Despite the more modest shipbuilding bump proposed by Trump, Congress has been much more aggressive, appropriating funds for 50 ships during the same time frame. That’s a 26 percent increase over the White House’s requests.
(...SNIPPED)

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 3:50 pm 
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Hmmm....perhaps this is how they intend to pay for those new frigates?

Defense News

Quote:
Destroyers left behind: US Navy cancels plans to extend service lives of its workhorse DDGs
By: David B. Larter   2 hours ago
WASHINGTON – In a move with sweeping consequences for the US Navy’s battle force, the service is canceling plans to add 10 years to the expected service lives of their stalwart destroyer fleet, a cost-savings measure that would almost certainly hamper plans to grow the size of the fleet.
In written testimony submitted to the Senate Armed Services Committee, the Navy’s Assistant Secretary for Research, Development and Acquisition James Geurts said performing service life extensions on Burkes designed to bring them up from 35-year hull lives to 45 years was not cost effective.
“Service life extensions can be targeted, physical changes to specific hulls to gain a few more years, or a class-wide extension based on engineering analysis,” the testimony reads. “The Navy has evaluated the most effective balance between costs and capability to be removing the service life extension on the DDG 51 class.”
(...SNIPPED)

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DougC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:07 pm 
What's so magical about the 355 ships? Does it include the support ships?
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maxim
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:47 am 
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Sure, all kind of ship. The "355" is a goal (formulated by the Navy during Obama's government) - but apparently a 355 ship fleet is too expensive. It is similar to some goals of the Royal Navy after World War 1 - formulated often, but there was never enough money.

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gms
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:14 pm 
355 is not a realistic goal. Ships keep getting bigger & more expensive and our manpower costs are too high. USA needs to be more judicious in how it spends its defense dollars.

I don't know why it needs so many amphibious ships. I think we should have fewer carriers but more air wings. More submarines are needed but not so many boomers. More money needs to go toward maintenance.
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navydavesof
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:03 pm 
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I understand the previous statements, but again, like the title of this thread says, it's really not all that hard to get to 355 ships. People saying it is impossible never really explain their claims, they just jump the step of logical explanation and make a statement of "no!"

So, here is how I can say "yes" in ship types.

1. An entire class of combatants without Aegis. That will save nearly $1B per ship.
DD Burke focused on ASW. No Aegis, no SPY, rotating radars instead, and a helo hangar able to accommodate 4 HH-60s and between 32-64 VLS. She could be equipped with the best ASW AQQ-89+ and hunt, hunt, hunt. If we really wanted to get serious, we would arm her with a deck gun that matters. Either a 155mm Mk45 or a Mk71 for NSFS or Naval Gunfire Strikes.

2. Small combatants are remarkably necessary. PC(R) is a perfectly desirable small combatant for regional influence, taking the load off larger combatants such as CG/DDGs.

3. The result of the upcoming CVN redesign studies. Even say that we revert to a return to Nimitz-class CVNs, we could still get 2 GHWB versions for a single Ford. We could save even more if we revert to either a modern Conventional Forestall or nuclear version. Anyway you go about it, you could get 2+ hulls for the cost of a single Ford.

4. Exploit plans to convert the America-class LHA class to a CV.

5. Battleship reactivation and modernization.

6. If we want an FFG worth anything it sounds like we need to go with a Hobart-class downgraded to rotating radars and upgraded to 64-cells. If that means adding 2 8-cell modules aft of the aft stack, then go for it. If we really wanted to stretch its legs, we could go for the 155mm/60caliber Mk45 Mod+ with a 300-400 round magazine instead of the 600 round Burke mag.

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Admiral John Byng
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:40 pm 
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It is not just the cost of the ships and equipping them, the biggest expense comes from personnel. I agree that the US needs to invest in significant ASW assets but I don't think that adapting the Arleigh Burke design for the task would be as useful as designing (or purchasing) a purpose built vessel.

It looks like the US Navy might become a drone-heavy fleet in the future which would enable it to reach the magic 355, but that brings its own problems.

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maxim
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:02 am 
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All the recent reports indicate insufficient spending to reach that goal.

For those who want to re-activate antique museum ships, I propose this great ship with a famous fighting record and similar ability to fight in the 21st century:

Image
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Constitution_1997.jpg

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:11 pm 
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defense News

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Cost of upgrading Arleigh Burke destroyers may not be worth it, says US Navy
By: David B. Larter   7 hours ago
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Navy is backing away from the idea of a classwide service-life extension project for the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, but is leaving open the possibility to upgrade some of its workhorse surface combatant.
The Navy’s top acquisition official, James Geurts, told lawmakers March 12 during a hearing with the House Armed Services Committee’s Readiness Subcommittee that the Navy faced some “stark choices” with a projected flat budget that will see steadily declining returns as inflation eats into the military’s buying power.
“We had originally looked at adding service life to destroyers, if you recall in hearings last year and the year before,” Geurts said. “That was one of the ways we were increasing the naval size. What this shows you is some of the stark choices the Navy is having to make with a relatively flat line.
(....SNIPPED)

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:06 pm 
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A belated update:it's nice to see that Bath and other shipbuilders haven't stopped building despite this pandemic.

Naval News

Quote:
Construction begins on US Navy’s second Flight III Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.
Nathan Gain 06 Mar 2020
NAVSEA Press Release
DDG 126 will be the first Arleigh Burke-class destroyer built in the Flight III configuration at BIW. Flight III destroyers will have improved capability and capacity to perform Anti-Air Warfare and Ballistic Missile Defense in support of the Integrated Air and Missile Defense mission. This system delivers quick reaction time, high firepower, and increased electronic countermeasures capability for Anti-Air Warfare.
The ship will honor Marine Corps General Louis Hugh Wilson, Jr., who was awarded the Medal of Honor for his indomitable leadership and daring combat tactics in the Battle of Guam in 1944. During a prolonged firefight with Japanese forces, Wilson led Marines under his command across rugged terrain to secure a strategic objective. Despite being wounded three times, Wilson and his men defended their position for more than 10 hours of combat. The following day, Wilson led a 17-man patrol to capture, secure, and hold a second position.
“This is a tremendous occasion as we mark the start of construction on BIW’s first Flight III Arleigh Burke class destroyer.” said Capt. Seth Miller, DDG 51 class program manager, Program Executive Office (PEO) Ships. “General Wilson embodied the spirit of our nation in his will to protect his fellow Marines and countrymen. What better way to honor him than to build a highly capable warship that advances our Navy’s ability to protect and defend our Nation.”
(...SNIPPED)

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Haijun watcher
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:17 pm 
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NavyDaveSof,

Apparently your Navy hit a milestone this week when it accepted its 300th warship, after the LCS Oakland was accepted into service:

Navy.mil

Quote:
Navy Accepts Delivery of Future USS Oakland (LCS 24)
Story Number: NNS200626-10Release Date: 6/26/2020 11:39:00 AM
A A A Email this story to a friend Print this story
From PEO Unmanned and Small Combatants (PEO USC) Public Affairs

MOBILE, Ala. (NNS) -- The Navy accepted delivery of the future USS Oakland (LCS 24) June 26 during a ceremony at Austal USA in Mobile, Alabama.

Oakland is the 22nd littoral combat ship (LCS) and the 12th of the Independence variant to join the fleet. Its delivery marks the official transfer of the ship from the shipbuilder to the Navy, bringing the service's inventory up to 300. It is the final milestone prior to its scheduled commissioning in early 2021.

“This is a great day for the Navy and our country with the delivery of the future USS Oakland,” said LCS program manager Capt. Mike Taylor. “This ship will play an essential role in in carrying out our nation’s future maritime strategy.”

Four additional Independence-variant ships are under construction at Austal USA: Mobile (LCS 26), Savannah (LCS 28), Canberra (LCS 30) and Santa Barbara (LCS 32). Three additional ships are awaiting the start of construction.

The future USS Oakland is the third U.S. Navy ship to honor the long history its namesake city has had with the Navy. The first Oakland was commissioned in 1918 and used to transport cargo. In 1943 the second USS Oakland was commissioned. Though in service for less than seven years, she was key to many anti-aircraft missions in the Western Pacific—Marshall Islands, Pagan Island, Guam, Iwo Jima, Rota, Peleliu and Okinawa. After the war, Oakland performed two duty patrols off the coast of China before her decommissioning in 1949.
(.,...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:49 pm 
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defense news

Quote:
To keep up with our competitors, America must boost shipbuilding
By: Sen. David Perdue   3 days ago

The attack submarine Boise arrives at Huntington Ingalls Industries' Newport News, Va., shipyard on June 18, 2018, to begin an extended engineering overhaul. (Ashley Cowan/Huntington Ingalls Industries)
Right now, the world is more dangerous than any time in my lifetime. The United States faces five major threats: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea and terrorism. We face those threats across five domains: air, land, sea, cyberspace and space.
The U.S. Navy is one of the most effective tools we as a country have to maintain peace and stability around the world. Today, however, the Navy is in danger of being surpassed in capability by our near-peer competitors. On top of that, our competitors are becoming even more brazen in their attempts to challenge our Navy every day.
To address this, the 2018 National Defense Authorization Act called for a 355-ship Navy to be built as soon as possible. This effort is extremely expensive: $31 billion per year for 30 years. This can’t be funded by new debt. We must reallocate resources to fund this priority.
(...SNIPPED)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:32 am 
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Defense news

Quote:
Pentagon nominee slams the US Navy’s fleet plans as ‘not a credible document'
By: David B. Larter and Joe Gould   20 hours ago
WASHINGTON – The U.S. Navy’s path to 355 ships was unrealistic, prompting the Pentagon to delay the release of the Navy’s annual 30-year shipbuilding plan, the presumptive incoming head of the Office of the Secretary of Defense’s in-house think tank told Senate lawmakers Tuesday.
The Navy is required to submit to Congress a 30-year plan for shipbuilding with its budget, but did not do so this year, which has raised consternation among lawmakers of both parties who have been pushing for a larger fleet to meet what they see as a rising threat from China.
But John Whitley, Trump’s nominee to be the director of the Pentagon’s influential Cost Assessment and Program Evaluation office, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the Navy’s plan wasn’t rooted in fiscal realities, adding it was “not a credible document.”
“It assumed there were resource constraints for five years and then assumed there were no resource constraints,” Whitley said. “And what [Secretary of Defense Mark Esper] was concerned about was that wasn’t a credible document.
(...END EXCERPT)

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