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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:08 pm 
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I begin to write a possible scenar with Renown April 9th 1940...


5.05am - The Baltic Squadron is discover by Renown

The cruiser, in front of the German Fleet line receives first the 15” splashes. distance 16500m
The cruiser retreat near the middle PBB.

The PBB are not disappointed because they had much tested battle tactics since many years; a battle with a slower BB, a faster BB...
The tactical is to disperse the 3PBBs, every PBB operate individually.

Renown making 23kts in the storm, open fire on VdT, in the middle of the German line
All PBBs return fire. Speed 16 to 20 kts

Std20 (3T3x28cm), first of the German line go ahead
VdT - (2T2x38cm), second in the line make a complete circle & follow Std21
Std21 (3T2x38cm) third in the line make a turn over & operate on opposite side.

Hits
On Std20, tower rangefinder out - 5h16
On Renown near the mast
On Renown deck boat
On Std21, aft 38cm turret out - 5h20
On Renown bridge, main rangefinder out
On Renown hull
On Std21, deck boat & diesels, serious fire, speed slow down to 16kts
On Renown funnel
On Renown bow
On Renown A turret, turret out
On Std20 bow, serious damage
On Renown hull
On Renown turbine, speed slow down to 20kts
On Std20 aft deck
On Renown deck boat, serious fire
On Renown bridge
On Renown aft turret, turret out - distance about 10000 to 12000m
Torpedoes lauch made by PBB. No result in the storm
On Renown, hits, on deck
On Renown, fore part of hull
With 2 turrets, 1 turbine out, great fire on deck boat, Admiral Withworth order retreat.
On Renown, 2 more hits during retreat


German PBBs ceased fire when Renown disappears south at 21kts-6h41

-----------------------------

The tactical is to disperse the enemy fire, so, 1 or 2 PBB are quiet to fire.
When the enemy is well hammered & his speed slow down, 2 torpedoes launchs are made by the PBB.

--------------------

I think that in the storm, the torpedoes could n't maintain the right direction.

With better sea condition, PBBs could make accurate crossed torpedoes lauchs & ...certainly sink Renown



Jef :wave_1:

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Last edited by Jefgte on Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:29 pm 
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PBB? Premium Battleships?

or Panzerschiff BB?

NavyField terminology has me mixed up :big_grin:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:33 am 
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Timmy C wrote:
PBB? Premium Battleships?

or Panzerschiff BB?

NavyField terminology has me mixed up :big_grin:


Panzerschiff


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:06 am 
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PBB is:

Pocket Baltic Battleship

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:32 am 
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I rewrite the possible scenario with Renown April 9th 1940...

Forces in presence:
British – Battle cruiser Renown, with 9 Destroyers - Admiral Withworth
German – The complet Baltic Squadron; 3 Pocket Baltic Battleships – 1 light cruiser – 6 TorpedoBoots – Admiral Marshall on Von der Tann

5.05am - The Baltic Squadron steaming at 16kts course 140° is discovering by Renown.
The cruiser, 1 mile ahead in front of the German Fleet line receives first the 15” splashes. The distance is 16500m.
The cruiser turns towards to the Admiral battleship in the middle of the German line.
The cruiser reported the presence of a battleship and destroyers steering 200°. Renown making 23kts in the storm, open fire on Std20, at the left of the German line at 5.08. Without possibility to escape, Admiral Marshal orders the deployment of the pocket battleships line for the tactical “1 battleship engagement by the left”. At 5.10, Baltic Squadron begins the deployment. At 5.14, all pocket battleships now in tactical position return the fire. Speed during deployment was16kts to 20kts.
The German battleships take their positions, Std20 (3T3x28cm), right of the German line go ahead at 18kts. Von der Tann - (2T2x38cm), in the middle of the line make a complete circle & follow Std20. Std21 (3T2x38cm) left in the line operate on opposite side with the light cruiser.
During the movement, Renown scored one hit on Std 20 at 5.16 near the top of the tower. The main range finder & some optical material are damaged. At the same moment, a 11” shell from Std 20 hit Renown near the mast making light damage. Renown, now steering 60° is hit again by a 15” shell at 5.18, this shell, probably from Std21 hit the lifeboats near the second funnel & a fire begin in the middle of the battle cruiser. Distance is now about 12000m. The British Battle cruiser identifies correctly the pocket battleships and switches her fire to Std21, the most powerful german pocket battleship. Shortly later, at 5.23, the range is correctly obtained & the battlecruiser makes a hit on the aft 38cm turret, making the turret out of action. Std 20 altered course to port before turning together to 110° at 5h26.
Due to the poor visibility by snow, fire cease for a few minutes. However, at 5.29, Renown is hit on the bridge, probably by a 11” shell fire at 12850m by Std20, this shell destroyed the top range finder. Study 21 with her 15” guns is now masked by the snow, so Renown switch her fire to Std20, At 5.30, This pocket battleship making 16kts, is now relatively clear in west at about 12700m. Before obtain the right range, Renown is hit again by a 11” shell near the bow.
The Renown's first salvo was about 300yds short, the 2nd straddled, at 5.32, the 3rd hit the pocket battleship in the middle, on deck boat. The shell passed through the 80mm armour deck & explodes in the aft starboard diesel room. The diesel in partially destroyed and a serious fire occurred, speed slow down to 14kts.The ship turn over and make screen smoke. Shortly later, Von der Tann reopens fire on Renown and obtains a 15” hit on Renown’s funnel at 5.35. Apparently, some 5”9 shells from the cruiser or Von der Tann hits also Renown during this period. The 5”9 turrets of Von der Tann are use to help the 15” guns in range. At 5.38, the German admiral pocket battleship score a 15” hit at 11840m on A turret, putting the turret out of action.
The British Cruiser altered course & continue to hammer Std 20. At 5.40, Std20 is hit in the bow at about 12000m. The shell made serious damage in the bow. Some compartments were flooded. Her draught forward increases by 2’.
At 5.43, Std21 reopen fire on Renown at 10750m & makes a hit on the forecastle.
Von der Tann hit also Renown in a turbine room at 5.44. The turbine was damaged & stopped. Speed of the British BC decrease to 20kts.
Distance between the German pocket battleships & Renown is now about 11000m.
British destroyers & German torpedo boats fire some times during this period; a torpedo boat was slightly damage by a hit on the funnel.
Std20 is hit again at 5.46 on the aft deck, some officers‘s cabins are destroyed.
The visibility is now better. All pocket battleships are firing on the British battlecruiser. The 3 German ships outgunned the Renown & obtain 2 hits at 5.48 one hit a life boat & explode in the hangar, serious fire begin in the middle, one other 11” hit the 2nd port 5”25 turret, destroying the turret.
At 5.52, on Renown, aft turret is damaged by an other hit probably a 15”which put the turret out of action.
Std 21 Captain think that Renown with 2 turrets out of action & a reduce speed is now in defeat condition. He orders to hoist the flag”ready for 1 torpedo launch”. Von Der Tann answers at 5.54.
2 minutes later, at 5.56, manoeuvring to be in good position, all pocket battleships launch 16 torpedoes to the Renown at 11000m & then, turn over at 20kts to escape the British Destroyers reactions
Renown firing with B turret only altered course to port before turning together to 220° at 5.58.
During the torpedo launch, Renown receives 1 more hit, a 15” on the forecastle. At 6.02 a 11” hit the belt. The amour was slightly driven and the hull plating bulged in, but no very serious damage was done, though the wings immediately below the amour were flooded for a length of c60ft.
3 British destroyers were in good position & launch torpedoes to Von der Tann at 5.59. Without effect due to the bad sea & the turn over of the pocket battleship. Von der Tann searchlights and bridge were damaged by shells from destroyers during this action.
6h05 - With 2 turrets & 1 turbine damaged, important fire in hangar & deck boat, about 500tons water in the hull Admiral Withworth order retreat.
On Renown, 2 more hits were obtain during retreat, a 15” near the aft rangefinder and an 11” near the stern without serious effect.
Torpedoes launch by pocket battleships made no result in the storm.

German Baltic Squadron ceased completely fire when Renown disappears south at 23kts-6h16



Jef :wave_1:

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Last edited by Jefgte on Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:58 pm 
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:wave_1:

During my holydays, I made 3 drawings of the battle.
I made them just by memory without any drawing model.
I think that they are not too bad...
Here they are:

...at 5h23, the range is correctly obtained & the battlecruiser makes a hit on the aft 38cm turret, making the turret out of action.Std 21 altered course to port...

Image




...at 5.32, the 3rd hit the pocket battleship in the middle, on deck boat. The shell passed through the 80mm armour deck & explodes in the aft starboard diesel room. The diesel is partially destroyed and a serious fire occurred, speed slow down to 14kts...

Image




...3 British destroyers were in good position & launch torpedoes to Von der Tann at 5.59. Without effect due to the bad sea & the turn over of the pocket battleship. Von der Tann searchlights and bridge were damaged by shells from destroyers during this action.

Image



Jef :wave_1:

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Last edited by Jefgte on Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: KM vs RN
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:33 am 
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Nice drawings.

:worship_1: :worship_1: :worship_1: :smallsmile:

Three out of four for them.


Any Panzerschiff hit by a 15inch shell from any RN battleship or battle-cruiser is going to be in a world of pain because their armor couldn't handle much more than 6inch shells.

Side note: "Pocket Battleship" is technically incorrect. The term was invented by newspaper writers to describe the vessels of the Deutchland class to the general public. The Reichmarine and later Kreigsmarine up until late 1942 refered to them as Panzerschiffs which translates as 'armored ships'. 'Armored Ships' would most correctly be translated to english as Armored Cruisers which can be infered to be a Heavy Cruiser. The KM redesignated Lutsow (ex-Deutchland) and Admiral Scheer as Heavy Cruisers in 1942.

My opinion of the Deutchland, Scheer, and Graf Spee has diminished the more I have learned about them. The 11inch guns were not a good idea. The ships would have done better to have ditched the 11 inch main and 15cm secondaries and have gone with 9.2inch main battery in 3 triple turrets. Secondaries would be four twin 12.7cm DP turrets (a destroyer gun) and 3.7cm twins fitted as automatic flak.
Anyway U-boats and disguised raiders out performed them by leaps and bounds.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:10 pm 
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This is the Baltic Squadron in the battle. Not the Deutschland class.
These Pocket Battleships are made to engage Russian or French old BBs

They have better protection than Deutschland class but, they are not made to receive 15" shells.

VdT
Belt, Turrets, Barbettes 270
Deck 100

Std20 & Std21
Belt 120, Turrets 170, Barbettes 125
Deck 80

Their force is the artillery (10x15" + 9x11") & the tactic repeat much & much time during training exercices.



Jef :wave_1:

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Last edited by Jefgte on Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:59 pm 
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Location: About 50 miles away from the Gulf of Mexico ( traveling W is you do so :)
COOL drawings Jef :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:34 pm 
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:wave_1:

The writting of the scenario & the design of the battle take about 3 hours.

Here is the scan of the battle

The points with H are Hits
The multiples small lines are the torpedoes lauch made by the Baltic Squadron

Image


Von der Tann actualy in the Jefgte's Shipyards

Image



Std 20 &21 ( 'll be in the Jefgte's Shipyards from sept to dec) :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

Image



:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
2 other scenarios are possible with the Baltic Squadron:

The Barentz sea Battle
The Cap North Battle



Jef :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:10 pm 
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:wave_1:

An other alternative for the constitution of the Baltic Squadron.



As you All know, Deutschland, Admiral Scheer & Admiral Graf Spee are sistership.


You can process identicaly and choose 1 class of Baltic Battleship.

3 Study 15 or 3 VdT or ... the most powerfull 3 Study 21

3 study 21 are the most powerfull Baltic Squadron
3 Study 20 are built in place of Deutschland Class & rebuilt in 1936,37,38 in Study 21.

The Baltic Squadron could have in 1939 3 Baltic battleships
15200T
24 kts - 3500nm range
Belt 120 - deck 80
and...18x380 guns !!!


Good luck to the enemy battleship ...Renown, Hood or DoY


Jef :wave_1:

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