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 Post subject: IJN Gray variants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:52 am 
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How many different Japanese grays were there. and do any of you guys know the cross reference for modelmaster? I dont particularly like model master, but I have alot of it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:41 am 
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I would recommend buying the WEM book and WEM paints for the IJN greys.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:15 am 
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ditto to what Rob says about the book very useful



Roy


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:04 am 
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I would recommend the WEM book as well. As far as paints go if enamels are an issue Model Master makes them in acrylic form, although I don't know if they've been discontinued like their US Navy colors. There are some still around though. I picked some up from GreatModels a few months ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:24 am 
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There are four official/known variations used by 4 different IJN Yards: Sasebo, Kure, Maizuru, & Yokosuka Grey. I've listed them in a rough order of darker to lighter; the Yokosuka has a tinge of green to it.

Then there are several unknown variations as ships built in private yards (Mitsubishi, Kawasaki, etc). would have likely had their own variations on the official IJN color mix ration

FWIW


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:45 am 
Ships of the Japanese Navy that re-painted at Singapore (of which there would be many), used Royal Navy stocks of paint, mixed to the required tone. Tone being the degree of dark or light. Therefore those ships so painted would be in blue grey, a different colour than the IJN greys.
Good luck.


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 Post subject: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:06 pm 
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Location: West Virginia, USA
Have often heard this, but have never seen supporting documentation. Can you supply this?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Location: One valley over from Hayward fault.
Paint it neutral gray and attribute the difference between it and what the ship actually wore to weathering and fading.

:big_grin: :big_grin: :big_grin:

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 Post subject: Re: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:30 pm 
No documentation, only anecdotal, but several times over the years.
Singapore had large stocks of paint available and It would be logical to assume the the IJN would avail themselves of same, think about it.


John @ WEM wrote:
Have often heard this, but have never seen supporting documentation. Can you supply this?


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 Post subject: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:06 pm 
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Ah, but how long would those paint stocks have lasted, with no replenishment? By mid-war it is more logical to assume that IJN paint stocks were being shipped there, as they were to Truk.

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 Post subject: Re: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:20 pm 
It was THE major RN base east of Suez. Lots of paint for lots of ships. Think about it.


John @ WEM wrote:
Ah, but how long would those paint stocks have lasted, with no replenishment? By mid-war it is more logical to assume that IJN paint stocks were being shipped there, as they were to Truk.


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 Post subject: Re: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:24 pm 
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ar wrote:
It was THE major RN base east of Suez. Lots of paint for lots of ships. Think about it.


Problem being that many capital warships were being camouflaged in homeland Japan later in the war as well. I can only assume in your case that they took the paints from Singapore to Japan which I find hard but perhaps sustainable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:24 pm 
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Paint enough to last for 4 years?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:11 pm 
Depends.


chuck wrote:
Paint enough to last for 4 years?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:53 pm 
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Anecdotal evidence only and you want him to "think about it?"

That's not very scholarly. "We don't know" is perfectly acceptable.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:28 pm 
I would say that it MAY not be scholary, however I have found during my many searches into matters naval that anecdotal evidence should NEVER be dismissed on principle. Accepted scholary works contain as a matter of course large amounts of such material. Quite acceptable, and anyboby who automatically sets aside such data is in error.
It is very possible that this thing will never be resolved, as you state "we don't know". Which means "maybe".
Final note; large stocks of paint and drydock facilities; the latter was certainly used, no reason why not the paint also.
Your turn young man.


Tracy White wrote:
Anecdotal evidence only and you want him to "think about it?"

That's not very scholarly. "We don't know" is perfectly acceptable.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:00 pm 
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ar wrote:
Quite acceptable, and anyboby who automatically sets aside such data is in error.


That's why cross references are needed to confirm them. Otherwise it's a one person statement. Plenty of those show up in WWII Naval History. For instance, I laught a lot every time I read USNI Report on the Java Sea plus other sources that based themselves on the USNI that state that IJN battleships were present in the battle. Not to speak of the severe losses inflicted by the ABDA force upon the japanese support forces. I guess with post-Morison and other studies of the time people got the information that no such battleships were present and pretty much no losses were taken by the japanese forces present in the engagement itself. Still, testimonies aboard Houston for instance supported those claims of sinking a couple of IJN heavy cruisers and half a dozen Japanese destroyers!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:10 pm 
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ar wrote:
Final note; large stocks of paint and drydock facilities; the latter was certainly used, no reason why not the paint also.
Your turn young man.


I'm not saying they weren't; I'm saying that "think about it" is hardly a good position to take when all you have is anecdotal evidence. Your second or third response seemed to suggest that these paints were used for a very long time during the war. I think it to be much more responsible to say "anecdotal evidence suggests that some IJN ships were painted in RN paints but we have no proof as to which ships or for how long." You let people know the possibility exists but also that there is still a lot of uncertainty.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:19 pm 
To you think that RN paints were used?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:20 pm 
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If you're asking me.... I have no opinion either way. It's the first I've heard of it, and I think it'd be kinda neat, but I'm not even a neophyte on RN paints and have no familiarity with IJN operations.... all I can say is that it'd be neat if, and I'm open to the idea of, but I'd need more than anecdotal evidence to feel comfortable passing the information on.

I mean, hey, we know the Japanese re-used others' stuff so it's not all that outside the scope of what we might expect. But I'm not going to say "they did," without more information.

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