The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:59 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: IJN Gray variants
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:50 am
Posts: 480
Location: North Pole, Alaska
How many different Japanese grays were there. and do any of you guys know the cross reference for modelmaster? I dont particularly like model master, but I have alot of it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:08 am
Posts: 1059
Location: Cornwall
I would recommend buying the WEM book and WEM paints for the IJN greys.

Cheers,

Rob

_________________
IPMS Fine Waterline Special Interest Group


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:42 am
Posts: 654
Location: Staffordshire Moorlands UK
ditto to what Rob says about the book very useful



Roy


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:01 pm
Posts: 411
I would recommend the WEM book as well. As far as paints go if enamels are an issue Model Master makes them in acrylic form, although I don't know if they've been discontinued like their US Navy colors. There are some still around though. I picked some up from GreatModels a few months ago.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 8560
Location: New York City
There are four official/known variations used by 4 different IJN Yards: Sasebo, Kure, Maizuru, & Yokosuka Grey. I've listed them in a rough order of darker to lighter; the Yokosuka has a tinge of green to it.

Then there are several unknown variations as ships built in private yards (Mitsubishi, Kawasaki, etc). would have likely had their own variations on the official IJN color mix ration

FWIW


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:45 am 
Ships of the Japanese Navy that re-painted at Singapore (of which there would be many), used Royal Navy stocks of paint, mixed to the required tone. Tone being the degree of dark or light. Therefore those ships so painted would be in blue grey, a different colour than the IJN greys.
Good luck.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:18 am
Posts: 941
Location: West Virginia, USA
Have often heard this, but have never seen supporting documentation. Can you supply this?

_________________
Cheers,
John Snyder
Shady Grove Farm
Shady Grove Farm on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ShadyGroveDuckEggs


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 pm
Posts: 3374
Location: equidistant to everywhere
Paint it neutral gray and attribute the difference between it and what the ship actually wore to weathering and fading.

:big_grin: :big_grin: :big_grin:

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:30 pm 
No documentation, only anecdotal, but several times over the years.
Singapore had large stocks of paint available and It would be logical to assume the the IJN would avail themselves of same, think about it.


John @ WEM wrote:
Have often heard this, but have never seen supporting documentation. Can you supply this?


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:18 am
Posts: 941
Location: West Virginia, USA
Ah, but how long would those paint stocks have lasted, with no replenishment? By mid-war it is more logical to assume that IJN paint stocks were being shipped there, as they were to Truk.

_________________
Cheers,
John Snyder
Shady Grove Farm
Shady Grove Farm on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ShadyGroveDuckEggs


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:20 pm 
It was THE major RN base east of Suez. Lots of paint for lots of ships. Think about it.


John @ WEM wrote:
Ah, but how long would those paint stocks have lasted, with no replenishment? By mid-war it is more logical to assume that IJN paint stocks were being shipped there, as they were to Truk.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Singapore Repaints
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:56 pm
Posts: 1185
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
ar wrote:
It was THE major RN base east of Suez. Lots of paint for lots of ships. Think about it.


Problem being that many capital warships were being camouflaged in homeland Japan later in the war as well. I can only assume in your case that they took the paints from Singapore to Japan which I find hard but perhaps sustainable.

_________________
"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 pm
Posts: 3374
Location: equidistant to everywhere
Paint enough to last for 4 years?

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:11 pm 
Depends.


chuck wrote:
Paint enough to last for 4 years?


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10448
Location: EG48
Anecdotal evidence only and you want him to "think about it?"

That's not very scholarly. "We don't know" is perfectly acceptable.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:28 pm 
I would say that it MAY not be scholary, however I have found during my many searches into matters naval that anecdotal evidence should NEVER be dismissed on principle. Accepted scholary works contain as a matter of course large amounts of such material. Quite acceptable, and anyboby who automatically sets aside such data is in error.
It is very possible that this thing will never be resolved, as you state "we don't know". Which means "maybe".
Final note; large stocks of paint and drydock facilities; the latter was certainly used, no reason why not the paint also.
Your turn young man.


Tracy White wrote:
Anecdotal evidence only and you want him to "think about it?"

That's not very scholarly. "We don't know" is perfectly acceptable.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:56 pm
Posts: 1185
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
ar wrote:
Quite acceptable, and anyboby who automatically sets aside such data is in error.


That's why cross references are needed to confirm them. Otherwise it's a one person statement. Plenty of those show up in WWII Naval History. For instance, I laught a lot every time I read USNI Report on the Java Sea plus other sources that based themselves on the USNI that state that IJN battleships were present in the battle. Not to speak of the severe losses inflicted by the ABDA force upon the japanese support forces. I guess with post-Morison and other studies of the time people got the information that no such battleships were present and pretty much no losses were taken by the japanese forces present in the engagement itself. Still, testimonies aboard Houston for instance supported those claims of sinking a couple of IJN heavy cruisers and half a dozen Japanese destroyers!!!

_________________
"Build few and build fast,
Each one better than the last"
John Fisher


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10448
Location: EG48
ar wrote:
Final note; large stocks of paint and drydock facilities; the latter was certainly used, no reason why not the paint also.
Your turn young man.


I'm not saying they weren't; I'm saying that "think about it" is hardly a good position to take when all you have is anecdotal evidence. Your second or third response seemed to suggest that these paints were used for a very long time during the war. I think it to be much more responsible to say "anecdotal evidence suggests that some IJN ships were painted in RN paints but we have no proof as to which ships or for how long." You let people know the possibility exists but also that there is still a lot of uncertainty.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:19 pm 
To you think that RN paints were used?


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10448
Location: EG48
If you're asking me.... I have no opinion either way. It's the first I've heard of it, and I think it'd be kinda neat, but I'm not even a neophyte on RN paints and have no familiarity with IJN operations.... all I can say is that it'd be neat if, and I'm open to the idea of, but I'd need more than anecdotal evidence to feel comfortable passing the information on.

I mean, hey, we know the Japanese re-used others' stuff so it's not all that outside the scope of what we might expect. But I'm not going to say "they did," without more information.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 13 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group