The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:11 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Posts: 2299
Location: (42.24,-87.81)
Original URL: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/30 ... ic_cannon/

TheRegister wrote:
US Navy to test fire electric hypercannon
By Lewis Page
Published Wednesday 30th January 2008 22:15 GMT

The US Navy will astound the world tomorrow by test-firing a radical new weapon system at an unprecedented power level. The new piece of war-tech on trial is that old sci-fi favourite, an electromagnetic railgun.

According to the Office of Naval Research, which is in charge of the project, the electric cannon will deliver over ten megajoules of energy in one shot. The ONR say this is "a power level never before achieved" by a railgun, and already represents significantly more poke than a normal five-inch naval gun can put behind its shells.

Image
Another triumph from the Office of Dodgy Mottos.

The designers hope in future to get the technology up to 64 megajoule muzzle-energy levels, able to shoot hypervelocity projectiles at a blistering Mach 7 and strike targets two hundred miles away - still going at Mach 5 - with pinpoint precision.

The US navy is interested in the kit for a number of reasons. For one, its next generation warships are expected to use electric drive systems, meaning that they will be have 80 megawatts or more on hand. If this power can be used to put violence onto the enemy as well as driving the ship, that's good news for logistics and supply. The only ammo you need is solid shot with guidance fins; there's no need for tons of high-explosive warheads and low-explosive chemical propellants for regular shells and missiles. These are replaced by nice simple fuel for the ship's engines.

The lack of exploding warheads could offer a chance to deliver more surgical strikes, too. They could take out a single vehicle from far out at sea, perhaps, rather than pulverising a whole area like present-day cruise missiles. This kind of thing is very trendy nowadays in military circles, though the problem of getting the right vehicle remains a tricky one.

Furthermore, even the ritziest missiles struggle to get above Mach 3-4, especially over any distance; thus the railgun slugs would be quicker to arrive when bombarding shore targets. They might also be good for shooting down fast-moving flying things.

Indeed, if the cannon could aim quickly enough and the hyper-bullets could steer well enough in flight, lighter-calibre weapons might tip the balance of naval warfare back in favour of surface craft. Ever since the Battle of Midway, sailors have reluctantly been forced to accept that aircraft win sea battles, not ships. But railguns might demote aircraft carriers from their current big-dog naval status and bring in electric dreadnoughts as the capital ships of tomorrow, able to sweep the skies of pesky aircraft or missiles as soon as they dared show themselves above the horizon.

It's easy to see why navies like the idea of electric hypercannons, then. But there are a lot of problems to be overcome. For one, the gun barrel tends to come apart after just a few shots. For another, packing a steady hundred-megawatt supply down into ultra-brief 64 megajoule pulses isn't simple.

The railgun plan is, unsurprisingly, seen as a "high-risk" effort by the ONR. A long shot, in other words (*cough*).

_________________
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Hope they update tomorrow ^^

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Posts: 2299
Location: (42.24,-87.81)
About that logo: there really is only one target for the USN on a trajectory over the pole like that one...

_________________
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Tierra del Fuego? :heh:

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 868
Location: northern Minnesota
Putin will get a charge out of that! :big_grin:

Bob B.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:02 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Moscow, Russia
bengtsson wrote:
Putin will get a charge out of that! :big_grin:

Bob B.


Why You hate Russians? It's personal? Blood of Karl XII? Remember Poltava? Just interesting...

WBR, Alex Kojanov, Moscow, Russia.

PS. We give you see Kuzkina mother!!! (C)

_________________
WBR, Alex Kojanov


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Posts: 2299
Location: (42.24,-87.81)
We'll gladly take all the Maria Sharapovas you have....

_________________
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Posts: 2299
Location: (42.24,-87.81)
    U.S. Navy Demonstrates World's Most Powerful EMRG at 10 Megajoules
    Story Number: NNS080201-02
    Release Date: 2/1/2008 8:47:00 AM

    From Office of Naval Research Public Affairs

    DAHLGREN, Va. (NNS) -- The Navy's Office of Naval Research (ONR) successfully conducted a record-setting firing of an electromagnetic rail gun at Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren.
    Attachment:
    web_080131-N-0000X-001.jpg

    An invited audience, including the Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead, who witnessed this revolutionary technology in action.

    Roughead noted, "We should never lose sight of always looking for the next big thing, always looking to make our capability better, more effective than what anyone else can put on the battlefield."

    He emphasized, "I never ever want to see a Sailor or Marine in a fair fight. I always want them to have the advantage."

    ONR's Electromagnetic Rail Gun (EMRG) program is part of the Department of the Navy's Science and Technology investments, focused on developing new technologies to support Navy and Marine Corps war fighting needs.

    ONR has facilitated a key partnership between leading scientists and engineers from Boeing, Charles Stark Draper Lab, Inc., General Atomics, Department of Energy (Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory), U.S. Naval Academy, Naval Postgraduate School, Naval Sea Systems Command (PMS 500), Naval Surface Warfare Center – Carderock and Dahlgren Divisions, the U.S. Army and United Kingdom.

    "We are seeing the culmination of years of research coming together to bring focus to exciting new technology," said Chief of Naval Research, Rear Adm. Bill Landay. "Here at ONR we are striving to move S&T from vision to results."

    The technology uses high power electromagnetic energy instead of explosive chemical propellants (energetics) to propel a projectile farther and faster than any preceding gun. At full capability, the rail gun will be able to fire a projectile more than 200 nautical miles at a muzzle velocity of mach seven and impacting its target at mach five. In contrast, the current Navy gun, MK 45 five-inch gun, has a range of nearly 20 miles. The high velocity projectile will destroy its targets due to its kinetic energy rather than with conventional explosives.

    The safety aspect of the rail gun is one of its greatest potential advantages, according to Dr. Elizabeth D'Andrea, ONR's Electromagnetic Railgun Program Manager. Safety on board ship is increased because no explosives are required to fire the projectile and no explosive rounds are stored in the ship's magazine.

    Science and technology challenges met by ONR in the development of the rail gun include development of the launcher, pulse power generation and the guided projectile design. The program's goal is to demonstrate a full capability, integrated railgun prototype by 2016-2018.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 868
Location: northern Minnesota
akojanov wrote:
bengtsson wrote:
Putin will get a charge out of that! :big_grin:

Bob B.


Why You hate Russians? It's personal? Blood of Karl XII? Remember Poltava? Just interesting...

WBR, Alex Kojanov, Moscow, Russia.

PS. We give you see Kuzkina mother!!! (C)


Alex,
I sent you a personal message, but will repeat the basics of it here for everybody to read.
My post was a joke :big_grin: :wave_1: . Meant to poke a little fun at the folks who have a negative view of Russia even after the cold war. I can understand with the language difference that it might come across different. Taken out of context it can look that way. Search my posts a bit and see that I am anti communist, but not anti Russian :cool_2:
As to Karl XII, he is my hero, yes. But if he had stayed out of Russia he would have lived longer :heh: . His own fault that!
Bob B.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
From one of the captions on one of the Navy Newstand photos, it says the projectile had a muzzle velocity of 2520 m/s, or 8265 ft/s, or 5637 miles per hour, or Mach 7.3. Isn't that already the speed required for the theoretical ideal railgun? Why do they have to increase it from 10 to 64 mJ? To fire heavier rounds? How heavy was the test projectile?

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
None of our engineers have any idea? =(

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
I also read that they fired the 32MJ gun on the 28th - Is there a reason why the 10 MJ gun is more publicized?

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:12 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Up The Street From Sam Wilson's House
Sounds like the Photon Torpedo Launcher Assemblies on 24th Century starships. :cool_2:

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 pm
Posts: 3374
Location: equidistant to everywhere
Werner wrote:
About that logo: there really is only one target for the USN on a trajectory over the pole like that one...



The place where the shot is seen to land in that logo is well inside the arctic circle, and target could only be polar bears.

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 pm
Posts: 3374
Location: equidistant to everywhere
Werner wrote:
We'll gladly take all the Maria Sharapovas you have....



Russian tennis tarts are overrated.

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Snohomish WA USA
Uh, am I missing something here? What's with all the flame erupting from the rear of that sabot? There should be no chemical propellant with a railgun.

_________________
Gerard>
Snohomish, WA USA
If you don't know the definition of erudite, you're not.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 12138
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Werner wrote earlier that's the superheated gas - plasma.

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 282
Location: Snohomish WA USA
Well, yes, I guess I did miss the fine print. Thanks, Timmy.

I must say though that the plasma seems to leave a LOT of heat signature for counterbattery to sensor on...

_________________
Gerard>
Snohomish, WA USA
If you don't know the definition of erudite, you're not.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 pm
Posts: 3374
Location: equidistant to everywhere
A very quick calculation puts 64 MJ rail gun into the following perspective:

It discharges a projectile with about as much energy as would be released by detonating 15 kg of TNT.

That's about as much energy as it would take to make about 20 good American family dinners using electric range and oven.

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 pm
Posts: 3374
Location: equidistant to everywhere
Gerarddm wrote:
Well, yes, I guess I did miss the fine print. Thanks, Timmy.

I must say though that the plasma seems to leave a LOT of heat signature for counterbattery to sensor on...



A single IR sensor can't detect the range, only the bearing and elevation, so it can't determine the actual trajectory. To determine the trajectory you will need a radar to locate the round in 3 dimensions. Well, an advantage of plasma is it would shield the round against some radar.

_________________
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group