JWintjes wrote:
Lesforan wrote:
Jorit,
Modern 12" guns afloat vs. modern 6" guns ashore. Where would the "rain of fire" come from if the ship stayed out of range of the shore guns?
The ship should be able to pinpoint the shore batteries by radar-tracking the 6" shells to their point of origin. Even mobile batteries can't move that fast.
Les,
three problems:
a) The 6" technology is already there; modern 12" guns are not; if we want to compare technology that does exist, it's latest-generation 6" against WW2-generation 16".
b) A latest-generation SPG has scoot'n shoot capability; PzH 2000 for example can go into position, fire 3 rounds and move out of position again within 90 seconds; scoot to the next position, fire another stick of 3 rounds, and so on.
c) Already existing 6" LR shells have around 40 km range, about the same as the max range of a 16" gun. Of course you could design a 16" LR shell, but already over that distance the shell has, if I remember correctly, a flight time of roundabout 80 seconds - which means that your target won't be there anymore when your shell hits the target area. Now, that's just one SPG; obviously, they always come in groups of three or four, so what you essentially have to fight sequences of 3-shell-bursts raining down on you.
Let's just say I'm sceptical. The thing is, a SPG is not as inexpensive as it was decades ago, but it is not by any stretch of imagination a high-value target. If you lose a half-dozen SPGs and in turn hammer your battleship/cruiser/whatever to dust, you have a maior PR victory.
I'm not at all against mounting a gun that's bigger than 6" on a ship; but I seriously wonder whether putting one modern 8" or even 10" gun on a modern frigate-sized platform might be a more useful option. In fact, the German navy has done some trials with mounting a 6" SPG turret on a frigate instead of a 3" OTO gun; now, that ship was a standard frigate, helodeck and all. Let's assume you have a multipurpose ship that could carry two of these - quite a considerable coastal bombardment platform, I'd say.
Jorit
Nooo!
The only reason the fleet is within range of counter battery fire is that air supremacy has been established; ergo this is no a "duel" - it is a mugging. And if the fleet has done its job - it will be serving up the pain.
Long before the ships are within range - the entire area of operations will be subject to intense scrutiny from space, Reconnaissance planes, and possibly spys. Then the fleet, supported by bombers, SSGNs, tacair, and possibly conventional ballistic missiles; will launch massive cruise missile, drone, air strikes, attacks to destroy/neutralize enemy radars, communications, command posts, ammunition depots, troop concentrations, and of course airfields. The enemy communications links and targeting data will be subject to jamming, cyber attack etc..
The only reason the SPG battery has survived this strike is that it has been hiding (this itself is a victory for the fleet). If and when the enemy turns on his radars, launches reconnaissance aircraft and orders his SPGs fire, or move, they will be subjected to intense aerial interdiction from drones, or strike aircraft, and counter battery fire from the fleet.
And the ships are also shooting and moving constantly *as they fire* and probably faster than the SPGs can displace, and probably with less restrictions on maneuver than the SPGs, which have to use bridges, take specific roads through the city etc.. This makes the ships a tough target for the SPGs.
And btw, enemy artillery is always a high priority target.