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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:26 pm 
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Location: Mocksville, NC
Does anyone know of anchor chain in 1:200 scale that is CORRECT for the MISSOURI kit? The kit supplied anchor chain is typical loop type chain and NOT the correct chain for this type of ship.

I've looked at various on-line chain makers, but nothing matches so far.

Thanks,

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:24 pm 
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The Floating Drydock used to have correct large-scale naval chains. If it is still in operation, I'd give the site a look.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:24 pm 
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I just got some 3d printed plastic chain from Floating Drydock last week.

http://www.floatingdrydock.com/more.htm#CHAIN

PCM-C115 is very close to the correct size and looks great. You'll need 2 for the 'Mo as they aren't quite long enough for both chains. I have 2 more on backorder too, so apparently they are currently out of them. I can take some pics of them on the kit deck for you later tonight if you'd like...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Glad to know TFD is still around! Than you for the link.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Try one of those machines in front of stores. I have scored many from those quarter bubble machines. The ones that have chains.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:08 am 
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Guys -

Thanks for the replys.

Jason - your pix would be welcome - just to see how they look on the deck.

I'll get an order into TFD!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:17 pm 
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Not the greatest picture in the world (I cannot get my camera to cooperate), but this should give you an idea on the scale, Hank:

Image

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Location: Michigan
Or just see the photos at TFDD:
http://floatingdrydock.com/more.htm#CHAIN

or the ones I've previously posted here, such as:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=42865#p594848


Image



Back orders: I'm hand-carving the little links as fast as I can! :big_grin:

Size: Unfortunately, the process won't make links any smaller than the smallest shown here, with 0.6mm thick "wire".

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:52 pm 
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Jason,

Thanks for the photo - I'll get my order in tomorrow (if I can get out - we're sort of snowed in here in NC).

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Alliance Model Works
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why not use HO scale chains? they go to 42 links per inch. They aren't bar'ed like real anchor chains but it's really hard to tell.
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:40 pm 
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AllianceMW -

I think you stated the obvious - "they aren't barred like the real anchor chain...".

Thanks for your reply!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:02 pm 
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The thing about most model chains is that their links are almost always round, instead of rectangular. I fixed this to some extent on my 350th Mikasa by pulling taut the chain and squeezing each link with a pair of pliers, but that can be time consuming (though not difficult) and, sadly, only emphasizes the lack of the bar in the middle of the link.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Location: Michigan
Another mess of chains going out the door... boy it's tough on the ol' eyes, hand carving all these links... :whistle:


(Pat's real stud link anchor chain is sold by the Floating Drydock)


Attachments:
mess'o'chain.jpg
mess'o'chain.jpg [ 137.79 KiB | Viewed 4431 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:44 am 
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Yay! Some of those are mine! :woo_hoo:

Pat, you ought to hire some gnomes to help you carve chain links :eyebrows: . They are gonna be very popular... especially if a way can be figured to do them at 1/350 scale.

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:41 pm 
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If gnomes did the work would they be considered Anchor Trolls?? :deadhorse:

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Has anyone tried to use TFD's chain for the 1/200 Arizona kit? The number of links per inch seems still not enough to me but just wondering if anyone has tried it?
Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:37 am 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
Has anyone tried to use TFD's chain for the 1/200 Arizona kit? The number of links per inch seems still not enough to me but just wondering if anyone has tried it?
Thanks


They are gonna be slightly too big for 1/200 scale as they are 1/192 but the difference is not very noticiable in my opinion. I have another Arizona kit and a better camera :woo_hoo:; I can get you some detail pics on the kit tonight if you'd like for comparision.

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Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:31 am 
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Was the bar in the link universal to all ships, or just capital ships?

Were the chain links usually squarish rather than round, or is this just specific to some ships? It dawns on me ship chains usually seem to have a non-generic/non-"simple loop" look...

Gaston


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:47 am 
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Location: Michigan
Anchor Chain Facts

Anchor chain is very prominent on the foredecks of many ships, but especially so on battleships... it pays to get it right!

First and before the other thread gets lost, see my latest try at the correct sized chain for 1:200 BB's at:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=155715
>> This chain is built at 15 links per inch (LPI).


Fact 1:
Yes, all anchor chain is "stud link". I used to think the stud somehow added strength, but no, it's there to prevent chain kinking or tangling. This in turn assures free running through hawse pipes, chain pipes (down to the chain locker), and over the anchor windlass's "wildcat" (the sprocket-like drum that the chain runs over).

Fact 2:
Chain is sized by its "wire diameter" (the thickness of a wire bent into link form), even if the links are forged or assembled from forgings.
Anchor chain links have a fairly standard form, a somewhat longish oval, with overall length = 6x wire diameter.
Iowa class uses 3-1/2" chain, with individual links being 21" long.

Fact 3:
Pitch is 4x wire diameter, so 14" per link along the length of an assembled Iowa chain... or .070" per link in 1:200, or 14.28 links per inch (I settled on ~15 LPI for my model chain).

Fact 4:
Anchor chains are assembled from 15 fathom (90 foot) "shots", using special removable joiner links. You won't see the difference in the links in 1:200, but the joints are painted so that you can see how many shots have run out as the chain whizzes by.
At one shot: Joiner is red, with one white link either side.
At two shots, Joiner is white, + 2 white links either side.
At three shots, Joiner is blue, with 3 white links either side.
Etc.
Usually expect 10 shots in an anchor chain. The 2nd to last shot is painted all yellow... you see it whiz by, say "aw sh1t!". The last shot is painted all red. You see red whizzing by, "run or you're dead!"

Fact 5:
At the anchor end, a variable length "swivel shot" starts the chain. The swivel shot includes a swivel joint (just like in a fishing line), a couple special links for joining to the anchor's shackle, and some number of links to connect to the first full shot... probably determined by where someone wants the swivel to sit on the foredeck.
No color code that I'm aware of for this connection.

Fact 6:
On an Iowa, the swivel shot is long enough that it and the first shot only shows on deck, with anchor weighed.. so none of the colored coded joiners will show.
But Missouri in Tokyo Bay? It's usual to put out a lead of 7x water depth when anchoring. If the anchorage is 15 fathoms/90 feet, then 7 shots of chain should be out, and a color code may well be visible on deck.

Fact 7:
You don't count on the anchor windlass to hold your chain.
Most ships have some sort of chain stopper- a ratchet-like pawl to check the chain, somewhere on the foredeck. Additionally, the anchor and chain are secured with short lengths of chain attached to the deck... three or four per chain on an Iowa. These chains are hooked onto the anchor chain with "pelican hooks", and then snugged up to take the anchor's weight with turnbuckles and some BIG wrenches.
>>> I am looking into adding these pelican hooks to my 15 LPI 1:200 chains... more later!


Attachments:
File comment: Painting DDG chain
ddg63_18b.jpg
ddg63_18b.jpg [ 120.3 KiB | Viewed 4116 times ]
File comment: Chain, pelican hooks, and swivel on an Iowa class
045a.JPG
045a.JPG [ 67.71 KiB | Viewed 4116 times ]
File comment: Special links at the anchor... hidden in the hawse pipe with anchor weighed.
88a.jpg
88a.jpg [ 64.05 KiB | Viewed 4116 times ]
File comment: Loose chains, anchors removed to lighten a grounded Mo... diorama time!
016385aMOa.jpg
016385aMOa.jpg [ 88.5 KiB | Viewed 4116 times ]

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Get your boats wet!
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MWS Gallery: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Pat-Matthews/user-index.html
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:59 am 
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Posts: 423
Location: Michigan
Fact 8:
To "weigh anchor" is to lift it up (from the bottom). The anchor is aweigh just as you start to pick up its weight. And it's NOT "anchors away"!

Not actually sure what the correct term is for the state of an anchor hauled up in the hawse pipe and stowed for sea... stowed?


Attachments:
File comment: Pelican hook on Wisconsin
wisc1.jpg
wisc1.jpg [ 134.52 KiB | Viewed 4097 times ]
File comment: More pelicans, would expect 3 per chain in operation. Port swivel just visible beyond the last pelican hook. Lots of padeyes for alternate chain stopper locations.
wisc2.jpg
wisc2.jpg [ 107.5 KiB | Viewed 4097 times ]
File comment: Pelican hook and padeye for Iowa class
Stopper.GIF
Stopper.GIF [ 8.69 KiB | Viewed 4095 times ]
016383bMOa.jpg
016383bMOa.jpg [ 125.21 KiB | Viewed 4095 times ]
5559433607_3238d17d1f_oA.jpg
5559433607_3238d17d1f_oA.jpg [ 90.84 KiB | Viewed 4095 times ]
File comment: Vertical anchor windlass/wildcat
016349dMOa.jpg
016349dMOa.jpg [ 101.01 KiB | Viewed 4095 times ]
File comment: Just rediscovered this in my collection. Looks like the anchor shackle and the start of the swivel shot should just be visible on an Iowa.
iowa1a.jpg
iowa1a.jpg [ 105.3 KiB | Viewed 4095 times ]

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Pat Matthews
Get your boats wet!
Blog: [redacted]
Shapeways Shop: [redacted]
MWS Gallery: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Pat-Matthews/user-index.html


Last edited by PATMAT on Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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