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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:53 am 
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Faced with a choice:

1) Build existing kit - even if it is pretty poor quality and has some inaccuracies but mostly lacking detail, so this will be your skil test? It will take time...

2) Buy new version of the subject from another company and do the subject real justice? This is faster and cost same as getting few 3D upgrades for 1)...

What would you do? Time is a scarce resources.

My skill level is probably intermediate.

The kit in question is 1/700 Kirishima. I have the Hasegawa from 1995, but considering to just give up on it and its bizzare transparent red plastic and pewter screws, and buy the Fujimi instead. Hull shape is wrong on Hasegawa (too tall, no bow and stern flaring), appalling deck and structure detail. But it would be fun to make the best of it, and I have PE for it and can scavange some parts for slight improvements... And yet Fujimi is significantly better with better PE and all it would need is a fix to casemates perhaps as main thing, and will build nicer...

Thoughts? Suggestions?

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Last edited by pascalemod on Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:05 am 
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It sounds like you would enjoy the new one better. Go for it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:28 am 
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My choice would be option (1). With kit in hand I would I would upgrade the smaller AA with the best 25mm (and maybe the 5" also) since the armament is what defines the ship. I do not do PE in 700 scale because it is very time consuming.

I do have an older WL Kongo (109) kit and find, for example, at least the main turrets need replacement and the hull casemates were not done well. I believe this Hasegawa version predates the Kirishima one you have since the Hasegawa makes use of sharing parts. The latest Fujimi version is light years better than the 109 Kongo version of the class that I have.

I am sure there is an historical listing of the kits and am curious to see where my kits fit into the sequence. I do have original versions of all four.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:59 am 
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Admhawk wrote:
It sounds like you would enjoy the new one better. Go for it.

Agree with Darren

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:00 am 
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Location: Bonn
If you consider time a scarce resource, buy the new kit.

The old kit would require much more work and it would be still very difficult to reach the same quality. These kind of kits make sense, if money is the scarce resource or if you enjoy rebuilding old kits.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:03 am 
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Are there any new techniques you've been wanting to try out? If so, build them both. The older kit may never be a show stopper, and you sound kind of down on it, so a great kit to experiment with for new kinds of paint, weathering, washes, pastels, oil paints, counter shading, PE glues, rigging, sea scape techniques, etc.

Sometimes it's tough to commit to a new technique on a high dollar kit, so an occasional "practice build" can take the stress off and be a lot of fun between more serious builds.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:18 am 
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Steve wrote:
My choice would be option (1). With kit in hand I would I would upgrade the smaller AA with the best 25mm (and maybe the 5" also) since the armament is what defines the ship. I do not do PE in 700 scale because it is very time consuming.

I do have an older WL Kongo (109) kit and find, for example, at least the main turrets need replacement and the hull casemates were not done well. I believe this Hasegawa version predates the Kirishima one you have since the Hasegawa makes use of sharing parts. The latest Fujimi version is light years better than the 109 Kongo version of the class that I have.

I am sure there is an historical listing of the kits and am curious to see where my kits fit into the sequence. I do have original versions of all four.


My assumption was that the Fujimi kit was "light years better than the Hasegawa version". Some info I found on these WL kits refutes that.

The Hasegawa 109 version is the only one they produced for all four ships of this class. The first WL models of these ships were by Fujimi.

The model kit review (Daves, Rarjendras, Joes.....List of Ship Kit Reviews) rates the Hasegawa better than the latest Fujimi kit but both only as fair and is worth reviewing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:21 am 
I have been replacing all the kits I built in the 70's and 80's with new ones. Well worth the time as the old ones are quite crude at times.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:14 pm 
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Location: Waiting for HMS Glatton in resin. Not holding my breath!!
I have had a badge made to wear at model shows. It says, “Life’s too short…. …to build cr*p kits!” (Feel free to replace the asterisk with a vowel of your choice.)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:47 pm 
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Probably the best choice is the one you choose yourself. There is always the possibility of doing both at different times.
I had an old Matchbox Indianapolis in 1/700 and rebuilt it following Mr. David Griffith's book, I could buy a new one.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:53 pm 
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The new Fujimi kit is clearly superior, save for the casemate correction. If there are aspects of technique that you wish to experiment with, perhaps use the Hasegawa sub-assembly that matches the Fujimi kit first.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:38 pm 
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Steve wrote:
The model kit review (Daves, Rarjendras, Joes.....List of Ship Kit Reviews) rates the Hasegawa better than the latest Fujimi kit but both only as fair and is worth reviewing.

Beware of WHICH "latest" Fujimi kit those reviews are referring to! If they don't specify, then they're likely written preceding the current period where there are a million variations put out over the last decade.

Edit: I checked and the review was written in 2010 and specifies the Fujimi kit it refers to is the "B016/No.16" kit, which is the comparatively ancient 1998 kit (full item code is 42016, but is also known as SWM-15): https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10001159

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:33 am 
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Great suggestions all around. THanks, I think it is a little clearer in my mind now.

My Kirishima is likely to be used up (hull anyway) for an upcoming project as a test. Lower hull will be salvaged for another build. PE Leftovers - for another upcoming project.

I will buy the new Fujimi Kit of Kirishima in my goal to complete a partner for my Washington later down the road. I have enough to build.

It was very tempting to modify Hasegawa but every built review of it I read, people said they had to do a lot of repairs and corrections - something I have done in past on Hood, Washington and few other models and I just dont want to go down that rabbit hole again as it takes too much time. Id rather put focus on making sure the fit is correct for the particular period, rather than rebuild a whole pagoda mast. :heh:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:18 pm 
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I'm sorry, I just can't resist :twisted:

Quote:
rather than rebuild a whole pagoda mast.


Shelf Oddity has a whole pagoda bridge you could use: https://shelfoddity.com/index.php?route ... ry&path=59


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:29 am 
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Dan K wrote:
I'm sorry, I just can't resist :twisted:

Quote:
rather than rebuild a whole pagoda mast.


Shelf Oddity has a whole pagoda bridge you could use: https://shelfoddity.com/index.php?route ... ry&path=59


You have no shame, do you? :heh:

Is there a Haruna one by any chance? :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:29 pm 
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Nope, no shame whatsoever.

Unfortunately, SO produced only the Kirishima variant.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:34 pm 
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Ahoi JIm B here;

Its results that count !!

==> by fair means or foul...

Buy the best starting point, shortcut to best quality and use
the best PE, 3-D and resources you can ;

The expense of all that pales intp near insignificance compared
to car fuel, expensive coffee and pastry in coffee shop, Beer / wine and meals in restaurants...

and the finished model has infinitely greater permanence than any of the above !

nothing irritates more in the future than a compromised model ship in your glass cases....

I repeat....
Its results that count !!

:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:02 am 
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When I am confronted with having an old less accurate, detailed or well molded kit in stash and new, substantially better one available on the market, and I feel the urge to build the ship the kits represent, I would buy the new kit to build as the ship the kit was intended to represent, and when possible, find a way to use the old kit in a kit bash or some other use major modification project.

I often find build the old kit with major modifications more entertaining and satisfying than building the new one more or less out of the box.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:23 am 
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I definitely fall into the 'make something of the old kit' view. I build scale models to lower my stress at the end of a long day. Of course I aim for a good result but getting there is a large part of the equation. I get the most enjoyment out of adding details and making something of a kit that I tried to build as a kid and never got the result I wanted.

I suppose the time required is a consideration for some people. But it's ship modelling for goodness sakes - taking your time to build and finish your chosen subject is a given. Otherwise, you are simply on a production line; producing scale models with childish results and not getting much pleasure out of it.

If you didn't have the time, energy or interest to build the subject originally, what makes some modellers think they will have time for a 'new and improved' version is a bit of a mystery. Where is the sense in having two models sitting on the shelf? And I must confess I have little patience for some of my scale modelling colleagues who demand to 'speak to the manager' if a finished kit cannot be had by simply shaking the box. I recently read a review of Mr. T's newish 1/700 scale H.M.S. Repulse. It included the comment that the old 1/600 Airfix offering was well-past its best before date. Good grief!

My two cents. W.D.B.

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