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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:43 pm 
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Inspired by the earlier posts I now have a Flyhawk HMS Naiad on my modelling table; I've never tried one of their kits before, all the parts look pretty smart. And they've been very generous with the provision of paravanes; never seen so many on one sprue.

The painting guide for 1940 shows an unpainted deck but I wonder if it should be grey. In fact the box art seems to be closer to the Flotta scheme than the vanilla/mint/chocolate shown on the instruction sheet. Does anyone know the likely deck colour for this period?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:57 am 
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Donald wrote:
Inspired by the earlier posts I now have a Flyhawk HMS Naiad on my modelling table; I've never tried one of their kits before, all the parts look pretty smart. And they've been very generous with the provision of paravanes; never seen so many on one sprue.

The painting guide for 1940 shows an unpainted deck but I wonder if it should be grey. In fact the box art seems to be closer to the Flotta scheme than the vanilla/mint/chocolate shown on the instruction sheet. Does anyone know the likely deck colour for this period?


It would be good if it were possible to tag other users on this forum like more modern platforms as I'd like to get Richard Dennis' attention here. I'm not convinced HMS Naiad was wearing Flotta colours as the pattern is nothing like other known Flotta schemes which tended to be more horizontally layered. I think it more likely HMS Naiad wore black, 507A and 507C. There is one period aerial photograph I known of and the decks do look rather dark, but the photo is quite poor quality and unstained / weathered wooden decks can look rather darker than often expected, particularly when wet.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:33 am 
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This topic has been covered previously (see Page 4 of this thread). My guess is that the Flyhawk instructions were based upon the Profile Morskie booklet, which is likely to have drawn upon Alan Raven's book in the Ensign series, in which he asserted that she wore dark brown/light green/light grey. Since then, Raven's book in the Warships Perspectives series showed the scheme as Black/AP507B/AP507C (note that this was published well before recent research showed that AP507A and AP507B were the same shade).

Whilst Malcolm Wright's book shows drawings in BOTH green/brown/white and black/"507b"/"507c", this can probably be discounted unless more evidence comes to light.

I have seen two overhead views of the ship in this scheme (https://www.world-war.co.uk/Dido/naiad.php and https://preview.redd.it/rnbx91gxhtx81.j ... c9b3795550) - as James stated, the decks look rather dark (in both).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:14 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:

It would be good if it were possible to tag other users on this forum like more modern platforms as I'd like to get Richard Dennis' attention here.


OK, je suis ici!

On page 4 I quoted what Alan Raven wrote back in 2015 on the question of Naiad’s colours as featured in his 1973 Ensign publication. Alan wrote: "In the early seventies, the only data that I had on this ship as she appeared in 1940, leaned strongly to her being in the Flotta scheme, which Home Fleet cruisers were painted in at this time. After the Ensign was published, people came forward, all stating that the ship was never in brown and green, but in BLACK and GREY. Hence the difference in the later publication."

Since then I have found further supporting information in the form of two memos on a DTSD file that would rule out Naiad having been in the green and brown colours of the Flotta scheme. The first was from the CO of RN Air Station Hatston dated 6th August 1940 stating that that it was cruisers of the 18th Cruiser Squadron of the Home Fleet that wore the Flotta scheme. The second was a memo from the C-in-C Home Fleet (Forbes) dated 19th August 1940 stating that the only ships then still wearing the Flotta scheme were cruisers of the 18th Cruiser Squadron.

When Dido first arrived at Scapa on 26th July 1940 to work up she joined the 15th Cruiser Squadron and was still in this squadron when she transferred to the Mediterranean Fleet in 1941.

As for the decks, I have higher quality versions of both the aerial photos that Tim has linked to (and one further one). The forecastle deck appears unpainted/unstained as the caulking lines between the deck planking show up:
Attachment:
Naiad 1940 forecastle.jpg
Naiad 1940 forecastle.jpg [ 134.07 KiB | Viewed 778 times ]



On the quarterdeck there is no such striping - it is all one uniform colour:
Attachment:
Naiad 1940 quarterdeck.jpg
Naiad 1940 quarterdeck.jpg [ 136.56 KiB | Viewed 778 times ]


The forecastle deck also appears generally lighter than the quarterdeck. It is strange that her decks should have been 50/50 in this way. Maybe they were halfway through painting/staining them and got interrupted? I wonder if they ever finished the job?!

There is a sharp tone divide level with the forward face of the aft deckhouse with the area around the torpedo tubes lighter than the quarterdeck aft:
Attachment:
Naiad 1940 divide.jpg
Naiad 1940 divide.jpg [ 96.64 KiB | Viewed 778 times ]


This might be a dividing line between the unpainted/unstained and painted/stained deck areas but it might also suggest Semtex around the TTs. It would be good to know what deck surface the As Fitteds show in this area.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:52 am 
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Very interesting photos; thanks for posting. I've already primed my Flyhawk Naiad deck so I will just go for a compromise scheme. Airbrush and shaders at the ready.

My late maternal grandfather was employed by North Co at Kirkwall during the period and they had contracts for revictualling Home Fleet vessels. I never thought to ask him what he recalled about colour schemes he'd seen even though I was modelling these ships in his twilight years.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:52 pm 
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Was the wood removed from the quarterdeck or was she built that way? Photos show wood on the quarterdecks of at least Dido, Phoebe and Hermione.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:16 am 
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dick wrote:


There is a sharp tone divide level with the forward face of the aft deckhouse with the area around the torpedo tubes lighter than the quarterdeck aft:
Attachment:
Naiad 1940 divide.jpg


This might be a dividing line between the unpainted/unstained and painted/stained deck areas but it might also suggest Semtex around the TTs. It would be good to know what deck surface the As Fitteds show in this area.


Richard am I imagining it or is there a curved paint demarcation on top of that structure aft of the torpedo tubes, in the area of the Carley floats and the small platform just forward of them?

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http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 4:19 am 
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There is certainly a lightening there Jamie. Looking closely there is other mottling elsewhere on that deck and on the quarterdeck below. Not sure if it is imperfections in the photo itself, imperfections in the mixing of any paint/stain there, or something deliberate - the remains of some dockyard camouflage perhaps (that particular photo is dated 24th July 1940) or partial bringing of the pattern from the sides over onto the decks. As ever we need more and better photos!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 5:07 am 
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I've settled for the 1941 scheme on HMS Naiad. I've shaded the tan deck so it can either be taken as (i) a painted deck worn down to bare wood or (ii) just a very weathered, sea-washed unpainted deck.

Some nice details on this Flyhawk kit: the unpowered boats have keels (I suppose they are actually dagger boards) moulded and they have provided a lot of PE parts. There's enough anchor chain left for me to use on other kits.


Attachments:
File comment: HMS Naiad
DSCF1787.JPG
DSCF1787.JPG [ 86.27 KiB | Viewed 584 times ]
File comment: HMS Naiad bow
DSCF1788.JPG
DSCF1788.JPG [ 98.03 KiB | Viewed 584 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:28 am 
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Does anyone know what the three upright posts (see attached photos) between the bridge and the C turret mount are for? I've already cemented the three plastic parts provided by Flyhawk onto the deck before realising that there are better PE items in the bonus packet provided with the kit. They might just be supports for an awning although one of the PE parts (the most forward) looks like it supports an aerial running up to the mainmast. It would be nice to know what purpose they serve before I try and model them.


Attachments:
File comment: Flyhawk 1/700 HMS Naiad
Flyhawk HMS Naiad Bridge.JPG
Flyhawk HMS Naiad Bridge.JPG [ 181.11 KiB | Viewed 483 times ]
Flyhawk HMS Naiad PE Parts.JPG
Flyhawk HMS Naiad PE Parts.JPG [ 329.32 KiB | Viewed 483 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:01 pm 
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The three upright posts (Parts GB-13-3 or A3/4/5) are (removable) stanchions to support derricks for deploying paravanes or embarking ammunition - they rarely appear in photographs. Part A11 does not support an aerial running to the mainmast (there is no clear path for such a wire, with superstructure and both funnels in the way); photos show a wire with insulator at the lower end, running from the crosspiece at the top of this component to the upper crosstrees on the foremast, presumably a wireless aerial.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:20 pm 
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Useful information re. stanchions. Many thanks. You're quite right, the wire leads to the foremast. I'll get the part with the crosspiece glued on tomorrow which will pretty well complete the model.

Moderator Edit: Donald's completed Naiad is here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=361825


Last edited by MartinJQuinn on Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Moved photos of completed model to Picture Post forum


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 Post subject: 'Improved' Dido Class
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:07 am 
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I'm just wondering how viable it would be to convert the FlyHawk 1/700 model of HMS Naiad, to one of the 4th group of verssels in this class (Black Prince, Spartan, Diadem etc).

It seems almost sacrilegious to be 'butchering' any FlyHawk model but I've always had a soft spot for HMS Spartan, because of her sadly short wartime career and I've been poring over the photographs and plans in Raven and Roberts' book 'British Cruisers of WWII'.

Has anyone else had similar thoughts or actually completed such a conversion ?? If so, any advice would be most welcome.

Thanks.

DaveW


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:47 pm 
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Have you seen the Ensign No 2 Dido Class by H Lenton and A Raven? This has a centrepiece profile drawing of Black Prince plus reasonably useful deck plans for the late batch Didos.

The big challenge of starting from the Flyhawk Dido would be how do you achieve the same level of fine detail in the new bits that would be required like the funnels and rearranged bridge and other superstructure!?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:41 am 
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Hi Francis, I think the point you make about replicating the FlyHawk detail on any 'new' parts is highly valid.
From my own perspective, the task required to lower the deck level upon which 'Q' turret was sited, as well as maintaining the level of details, is beyond my own meagre skills, so this entire idea might have to remain just a fanciful dream.

However, thank you for mentioning the Ensign book, of which I have a copy but had forgotten all about in my obsession with the 'Improved' Dido group.
Having dug it out, it reminded me that some examples in the earlier groups of these vessels didn't ultimately have, or end up with, a 5.25 mounting in the 'Q' position.

HMS Phoebe had a quadruple 40mm installation in 1942.
In 1943, HMS Cleopatra also had a quadruple 40mm fitted in that same position and, in addition, had the 4 barrel 2pdr pompoms in the waist position, replaced by quadruple 40mm weapons as well.
Finally, there's a lovely photo of HMS Argonaut in 1946, with a 4 barrelled 2pdr pompom fitted on a more elaborate 'bandstand' in the 'Q' position, which was carried out in 1944.

In the latter three cases the only alterations are to the weaponry, rather than to any of the ship' structures, so these are obviously a more attractive option to consider (I'm favouring HMS Cleopatra).

I must say, the centrefold illustration of HMS Black Prince, in the Ensign book, is superb. I'm almost tempted to fit it in a picture frame and hang it on my wall.

Thank you, once again, Francis for your kind thoughts; they turned out to be very useful indeed :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

DaveW


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:36 am 
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One could also consider three of the early members of the class, which, on commissioning, only carried 4 main armament turrets, with the missing fifth one being substituted by a 4" starshell gun (Bonaventure had this in "X" position, Dido and Phoebe in "Q" position)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:38 am 
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I used the 1941 Naiad to build 1945 Dido a little while ago.
That is not nearly as much modification work as the improved ones (e.g. Black Prince), with their pom poms or starshell guns instead of Q, but I'd love to follow that build.
My modification work was limited to degaussing cables, a few twin Oerlikon platforms, masts and radars. I did not manage to get the detail level to match Flyhawk, but who could really do that justice?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:16 am 
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From my own viewpoint, I think the 'Improved' Dido group, with their lowered and beautifully proportioned profile, were some of the most aesthetically pleasing vessels of their timespan.
I suppose I'm just going to have to wait until FlyHawk produce them, although I won't be holding my breath :huh:

I can't really grumble though, as, in recent years, a fair number of RN subjects have now appeared on the market, after what seemed like a lifetime of being largely overlooked (in 1/700 plastic).

However, I just wish that the Fiji/Crown Colony class, as well as the Town class, would suggest themselves to a manufacturer - and it's the same with the US Navy's Brooklyn class.
Ignoring such incredible vessels, in modelling terms, amounts to sad neglect :cry_3: :cry_3:

DaveW


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 2:21 pm 
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I bought a WEM Dido many years ago and still have not built it (I have a large amount of unbuilt models in my stash). When FlyHawks's HMS Naiad became available I just had to go for it. Comparing the two showed that the FlyHawk offering was clearly superior in every respect (WEM's Dido is one of their early subjects). I have been wondered what to do with the WEM Dido and came to the conclusion that I will modify it to become a member of the second group. Thus Naiad can be built more or to her original configuration and I will not feel sorry for destroying the details of the WEM kit. When (I/or will I ever) make it is the biggest question, though.
As for the Town/Colony class I have both the L'Arsenal Sheffield and Jamaica in my stash, both beautiful and intimidatingly well-detailed models.


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