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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:52 am 
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Location: EN83
Tracy White wrote:
Oh goody, another religious war. :roll_eyes: Some of you guys need to realize your opinion on what is right is not an absolute truth.

Both full hull and waterline models have something positive to them. You might never have seen a ship out of water, but are you saying it is wrong to enjoy looking at hull form? Rudders have no aesthetic value?


Agreed in full, Tracy--and will add this:

Do any modelers appreciate details (including rudders as Tracy mentions) such as bulbous bows, forefoot details, bilge keels/stabilizers, torpedo bulges/blisters, asdic transducers/sonar pods, auxiliary rudders (ex: the Littorio-class battleships), skegs, etc.? :thumbs_up_1:

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:no_2: Danny DON'T "waterline"...!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:03 am 
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i'll make a waterline or a not full hull model into a full hull as a ship without a full hull is not a ship.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
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Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Tracy White wrote:
Oh goody, another religious war. :roll_eyes: Some of you guys need to realize your opinion on what is right is not an absolute truth.

Both full hull and waterline models have something positive to them. You might never have seen a ship out of water, but are you saying it is wrong to enjoy looking at hull form? Rudders have no aesthetic value?

Amen, Brother Tracy, amen!

My God, you freakin' guys will argue about ANYTHING!

:argue:

At the end of the day, it's a freakin' hobby. Get over yourselves.

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"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:23 am
Posts: 1847
Location: Copenhagen
Tracy White wrote:
Both full hull and waterline models have something positive to them. You might never have seen a ship out of water, but are you saying it is wrong to enjoy looking at hull form? Rudders have no aesthetic value?

No, actually I had written that both waterline and full hull models are perfectly fine for me. I only argued against the opinion, that only a full hull model is a realistic presentation of a ship. In my view that is the most unrealistic presentation of a ship. But for sure one, which has also advantages: it is possible to see the design of the bow, sonar, screws, rudders etc. Therefore it is used for shipyard models, which can for sure be very good and nice models. But they are presented as a typical ship model - not in realistic environment.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:10 pm 
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RNfanDan wrote:
Tracy White wrote:
Oh goody, another religious war. :roll_eyes: Some of you guys need to realize your opinion on what is right is not an absolute truth.

Both full hull and waterline models have something positive to them. You might never have seen a ship out of water, but are you saying it is wrong to enjoy looking at hull form? Rudders have no aesthetic value?


Agreed in full, Tracy--and will add this:

Do any modelers appreciate details (including rudders as Tracy mentions) such as bulbous bows, forefoot details, bilge keels/stabilizers, torpedo bulges/blisters, asdic transducers/sonar pods, auxiliary rudders (ex: the Littorio-class battleships), skegs, etc.? :thumbs_up_1:


As a sailor on operational warships I appreciate the look of a vessel in it's natural element, in the water, at it's sleekest. There's nothing realistic about a ship model impaled on sticks although I do enjoy full hull builds displayed on blocks. I don't care how anyone builds their own model, but a line is crossed when somebody pompously insults me for choosing waterline builds as some have in this thread.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:12 am 
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maxim wrote:
Gaston wrote:
This attitude is especially egregious when mouldings can easily be done to accommodate for both...

Easily? We have been talking about resin kits and the lower hull would be the second most expensive part (regarding the mould!), i.e. a part causing an increasing price without any benefit for most 1/700 ship modellers.


I'll admit I forgot the title and wasn't thinking of resin kits when I said that... In resin kits I would definitely want only a full hull to mitigate warpage issues... I've seen many resin waterline that lifted off their "water"...

And the full resin hull, if hollow, can have a thinner engraved line inside to help be scored apart: You can still get both, although the bulkheads would need a gap...

If the ship is depicted making a turn, I don't understand why you would not want to have a full hull... And 1/700 ships are so small, you barely need more than an inch of filler to submerge a full hull on your display: If this was a larger scale I would definitely understand, but in 1/700 it actually makes even less sense to me: What is wrong with a 1" or thicker base filled with whatever lightweight filler you want?

It would never even occur to me to have ships set so low on a display table that they look as if they are about to fall through it... Much better to have them stand taller on a thicker base...

Gaston


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:05 am 
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So we need three options: 1) strictly waterlined; 2) full-hull; 3) waterline, but with ten scale feet of hull below the waterline for rough seas representation. Option no. 3 could be offered in plastic kits such as from Trumpeter and Flyhawk, as they already include a lower hull part (options nos. 1, and 2). :big_grin:
:wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 am 
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Location: Copenhagen
Gaston wrote:
And the full resin hull, if hollow, can have a thinner engraved line inside to help be scored apart: You can still get both, although the bulkheads would need a gap...

Do you have ever built a 1/700 resin kit? Judging from that sentence, I would not be even sure, if you have ever seen one. Do you know that resin is brittle? :?:

The best solution is the one from Combrig in 1/350: they offer both full hull and waterline kits. But they do not do that in 1/700 - likely, because there is no significant demand.

Gaston wrote:
If the ship is depicted making a turn, I don't understand why you would not want to have a full hull...

Yes, if I would like to make a diorama of a capsized ship, a full hull could be fine too. But you realise that you desperately searching for those rare cases, waterline modellers show part of the hull below the waterline? That is for sure not an argument for paying for a full hull model and then have all the effort to make it waterline again...

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