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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:04 pm 
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I want to scratch build the hanger deck on my 1/700 dragon belleau woods and this seems as good a place as any to start from. Anybody else have any ideas?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:39 pm 
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I already posted a reply to this same topic you posted at the Trading Post board.

Haijun watcher wrote:
Scans of the full instructions of this 1/350 kit, and many other kits of other brands, can be found at the link below:

1999.co.jp listing: 1/350 USS Independence by Dragon

Scroll down to the tab marked "Assembly Guide" and you'll see the scans of the full instructions.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:48 pm 
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I found out about a detail I didn't know about when we did the kit (conflagration station) on my last research trip. It truly is something that only God would know is there, but let me know if you're interested and I'll mention a few things that weren't in the kit.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Yes I would be very interested in any such information. Now that I have seen the instructions to the 1/350 Dragon kit I realize they won't help me. They don't show both sides of the hanger deck for one thing and they don't show the side they do show with enough clarity for me to use them to scratch build this is 1/700 scale. It seems you would be the perfect person to ask....where can I get drawings of this hanger deck? Do the ones from Floating Drydock of the Belleau Wood show the hanger deck? They're on vacation at Floating Drydock til the 15th of this month,(Hey I'm a model builder! We are not a patient lot when we need information!), so I can't ask them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:41 pm 
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CVL-26 – USS Monterey – Booklet of General Plans, 1950, Plate 16 missing. Independence Class http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... /cvl26.pdf
http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-d ... ns-online/


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Thanks...I just got done taping to a board my blown up copy of the hangar deck from that source.....now if I can find elevations of the two sides to go with some photos I will have what I need to proceed. Thanks to all who are helping.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:34 pm 
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The Conflagration station I mentioned is on sheet 9, port side, just aft and opposite of the #4 exhaust trunk. It was literally only half-height, with the windows at floor level. As far as I can tell the sailors who manned this needed to be laying down on their stomachs to see anything. Note, too, that the midships hangar bay doors open INWARD instead of the customary outboard.

I discovered, after staring until I was cross-eyed, that there were only a couple of ventilator shapes and you could tell which one by the vent on the outside. Once I figured this out, it made doing the inside of the 350th kit a lot easier.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:28 am 
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Hello Tracy, Thanks for the info. All the books I have Squadron, Warships illustrated and John Lamberts don't have pictures of the hanger deck. This weekend i'll go through all the internet ie. nav/source ones, do you know of any others pictures or drawings etc.? In a day or so I can contact Floating Drydock to see if there Belleau wood drawings include the hanger deck elevations, does anybody else know the answer to this. Thanks again for all the help everyone.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:17 pm 
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The CVL-22 site has some photos on "Pics 2," "Pics 3," and "Pics 4." Fifth floor of NARA II has some photos (third floor has plans, second floor has some random photos I stumbled across and sent to Navsource).

One thing to keep in mind when looking at photos of the elevators is that there were two types used on the class. I don't have my documents on it with me and will try to verify tonight, but I think the first four had one type and the rest the other (it might be the first three, so either way Belleau Woods matches CVL-22 Independence and CVL-23 Princeton). The visual difference is that original design had the elevator track in the outboard center and lift cables at the four corners and the later ships the opposite (tracks at the corners and lift cables in the outboard center. So, this photo of CVL-26 Monterey is not a good detail reference for your build)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:50 pm 
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scots, what elevation drawings of the hanger are you looking for?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:31 pm 
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hello, What I'm looking for is drawings of the side and end elevations of the hanger deck and any pictures to help clarify the details/drawings. I would settle for pictures of the pieces from the dragon 1/350 kit with a ruler next to them that would show what dragon did. I'll be working at 1/700 scale so I probably won't end up with as detailed a pieces as the 1/350 kit but they will be good enough. Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:59 pm 
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sheet 9 shows the end hanger deck walls as being flat to the rear of the aft elevator & forward of the front elevator.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:53 pm 
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scots navy wrote:
hello, What I'm looking for is drawings of the side and end elevations of the hanger deck


Not going to find that from any source I know of, including the Navy. As far as what we did for Dragon, it was literally looking at the intake screens on the outside of the hangar bay and plopping the appropriate ventilator shape on the inside of that. The Hangar bay was one of the last things that was done, after all of the external details had been drawn and corrected (and in the case of the wildcats and stern bulkhead, missed. Sorry about that!) I don't know that measuring things out is going to be any better. There's a likelihood that internal placement is off "in reality" as we didn't use plans at that point, just the outside as a reference point. Shouldn't be more than a foot or two in scale, but as cramped as that area was.....

Also, be aware that the 1/350th kit started as a scale-up of the 1/700 kit but that they scrapped that CAD entirely and redrew from scratch due to inaccuracies we found with the initial CAD. Simply scaling their 1/350th parts down won't work without test fitting and adjustment. Likewise, working from official plans will probably also result in some misplacement in appearance as Dragon was not working from plans on the 700th kit that I am aware of (based on what we saw in the 700th scale CAD when we started. I never asked, just focused on pointing out things to change and update).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Thanks Tracy for your reply. Given that the drawings I want don't exist then pictures of the 1/350 scale pieces next to a ruler sound like the best I can hope for. I realize there will be discrepancies I have to reconcile...it is 1/700 scale and you will only be able to see through the open roll up doors and where the elevators are down. I like to build models for my sanity/fun, anything else involves too much angst. Can anyone take pictures...I don't want to have to buy the 1/350 kit if I can avoid it. I don't even know if it is available. thanks All.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:01 pm 
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I'll see what I can do. I know I loaned my CVL-23 kit out for a review and still haven't got it back yet and that I have a fair amount of CVL-22 test shot pieces, but some of those wouldn't have all of the hangar bay details and I can't remember if I had to give all my CVL-22 kits away or not (I had to promise kits to some people to get information from them we could use). Even though I want to build a couple I can't remember that I actually have a full one, in summary. If I do I'll get you some pictures this weekend.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:25 am 
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First three ships:

Image

Attachment:
1945-4-18ElevatorSag01.jpg
1945-4-18ElevatorSag01.jpg [ 33.8 KiB | Viewed 234 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:50 pm 
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thanks Tracy, whenever you can get to it will be fine. The adult in me said that, the modelbuilder is like a kid waiting for Christmas....


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Hello Tracy....I found a friend who lent me his unbuilt Dragon 1/350 uss independence. Seemingly great news! What i am discovering instead is the directions to the 1/700 dragon kit, like those to the 1/350 Dragon kit, are also vague, confusing, and not much help. The directions for gun tubs and directors tubs are terrible anywhere they try to give you choices like E3 vs. E4 or E11 VS. C3. The kit has numerous pieces where you are given choices - this part or that, sometimes they make it clear, sometimes it's very confusing, and sometimes it's not addressed in the directions at all. Enough about the directions, the discrepancies of vent location and vent size on the sides of the upper hull from the 1/700 kit to the 1/350 kit require removing some, adding others, and generally deciding how crazy do I want to get at this scale. I'm somewhat tempted to remove all this detail, including ladders, doors, etc. and call the sides a blank slate with which to start. I typically remove most of this detail and replace it with photo etch anyway. Having tackled the photo etch from Five Star on the 1/700 Tamiya Boque it seems like a fun, possibly even doable, project to scratch build all of this detail on the sides of flight deck with the wide array of perforated, non-skid, carrier catwalk, netting, railings, splinter shields, gun tubs, and etc.photo etch available on the after market. Actually it isn't always fun but it seems to have made me a better modeler struggling with this kind of kit modifying/scratch-building. Friends in the model clubs I belong to say they have fun building right out of the box. I don't believe them usually although some Tamiya aircraft kits almost had me convinced. Well that's it for one Sunday night....I'll post some pictures to let you see how it goes. Also thanks again for all the help you and others have provided.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Well, sorry to hear it's still a challenge, but I hope you enjoy the results when complete!

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"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


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