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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:20 pm 
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This has recently been published and available on Amazon for US$ 33-
Looks good but my copy is on the way...
>>>> Hitler's Forgotten Flotillas: Kriegsmarine Security Forces Hardcover – June 15, 2017
Hardcover: 336 pages
Publisher: Naval Institute Press (June 15, 2017)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1473882397
ISBN-13: 978-1473882393
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Also a very good book, the title says it all.
The Naval War in the Baltic, 1939-1945 Hardcover – June 15, 2017 by Poul Grooss (Author) US$23- 416 pages
Another of Pattersons books is Schnellboote - A complete Operational History

I have this and is an excellent reference work, it also covers S-boots when operating with R-boots which was often in various theatres of conflict..

I would like to see Mr Patterson write a similar book on Raumboots !

Hope that is of some use....

Just wonder if the Royal Navy ever mounted their 8 barrelled pompoms on any of their MGB's or similar vessels !! :thumbs_up_1:
The idea of these and 38 Flakvierlings on small vessels interesting.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:21 pm 
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https://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Forgotte ... 1473882397


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Anyone know where & when the Greeks got their hands on the two R-151 boats that were handed over to the fledgling Greek-Cypriot Navy? One primary source figures at least one might have been scuttled at Salonika @ late 1944.

Arion and Phaethon were sent down to Cyprus, where each was fitted with a pair of 20mm Oerlikons and a 40mm Bofors.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:26 am 
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Were the Räumboote in postwar Greece as the wartime result of the Royal Navy's courier corpse ruse to distract the Nazis toward Greece and Sardinia away from Operation Husky, the assault on Sicily?
Quote:
On July 12 [1943], Sicilian D-Day +2, the commander of German naval forces in Italy cabled headquarters to complain that "the departure of the 1st R-boat Group, sent to the Aegean for the defence of Greece, had prejudiced the defence of Sicily ..."
Ben Macintryre, Operation Mincemeat (2010), page 289.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:26 am 
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Michael Potter wrote:
Were the Räumboote in postwar Greece as the wartime result of the Royal Navy's courier corpse ruse to distract the Nazis toward Greece and Sardinia away from Operation Husky, the assault on Sicily?
Quote:
On July 12 [1943], Sicilian D-Day +2, the commander of German naval forces in Italy cabled headquarters to complain that "the departure of the 1st R-boat Group, sent to the Aegean for the defence of Greece, had prejudiced the defence of Sicily ..."
Ben Macintryre, Operation Mincemeat (2010), page 289.


From what I recall talking to the R-195's skipper, the major Kriegsmarine vacuum in the Eastern Mediterrean triggered the transfer of the 12th(?) Flotilla. They were pulled out of Normandy (might even have been vicinity Dunkirk) and motored up the Loire, the boats then disassembled and trucked over to the Rhone. They were reassembled at Marseille and barely got past Sicily (1943) before the Allied advance closed those straits.

Kriegsmarine assets still afloat were scuttled when the decision was made by Berlin to retreat overland via Yugoslavia in 1944.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:33 pm 
"Forum Marinearchiv" is a good place to ask. Insert "Räumboote" (raeumboote will not work!) in the search icon, and off you go. Questions posed in English likely will be answered in English.
HTH, Richard


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:27 am 
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http://forums.airbase.ru/2007/09/t57622 ... mboty.html


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:46 pm 
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That is a great site Alexey, thx for posting.

Does anyone have a copy of the Russian magazine Morskaya Kollektsia that covers Raumboots, VP Boote or Schnellboots that they would like to sell. Or alternatively, a digital copy for personal research and use please. They cover all sorts of topics / ships from the common to the quite obscure ones, some of which are ignored by Western sources.

I notice that the Kriegsmarine ships from the commencment of WW2, the "life rings" were ALL red with white lettering of the vessels name or in the case of smaller ones the Flotilla they belong to, and later in the War from about late 42 - early 43 the colour / paint on them changed to alternate white - red divided into alternating quarters.
My question, was the change - transition around late 42 - early 43 or was it later ?
Hard to be sure as there is limited photo representation to pin this down more precisely... Thank you in anticipation

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Russian magazine Morskaya Kollektsia

This is the Schnellboot magazine which appears to be long out of print:
MKL-199902 Morskaya Kollektsia N2 1999: Schnellboot. German Navy WW2 Torpedo Boats

Anyone got a copy of this they would like to sell ?? :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:38 am 
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I'm building a 1/72 Raumboot and could use some expert assistance.
Here are my questions:
1. What colors [deck, hull, wheelhouse, etc.]would have been used for an R boat operating in the Med and Adriatic theater?
2. What would be a good source for scale drawings for an early boat? Say R110?
3. What was the 12th Raumboot Flotilla insignia [typically painted on the bow], or a reference source for flotilla insignia. RFlot 3 for example had a moose head painted on the ships bows.
I've seen a bunch of grainy poor quality photos of Rbootes but none which clearly show where the mast was mounted, when it was used.
Some had masts some did not and some stepped the mast down when going into action. I've seen photos of a model with its mast mounted atop the wheelhouse.
Any information or reference sources you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
Enjoy your weekend and Cheers
Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Paul Beaver's book E-Boats and Coastal Craft has many photographs of R-boats, not published elsewhere. Maybe not helpful about masts, which varied.

From a detailed file that Iron Duke sent:

For a 1/72 model of R41-R101, you could scale up from the inexpensive 1/250 cardstock kit for R49 that this discussion cites. A different shape of transom made R102-R128 0.8m longer along the deck. These series were otherwise the same. For R110 from the cardstock kit, you need to rake the transom. In the cardstock kit, the mast stands on the centerline.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Hello Tin Can Gunner
With reference to your questions, what sort of time frame are you looking at ?

Some flotillas has insignia, as to them being shown in the Med and Adriatic I am not sure but possibly. I know individual vessels had insignia such as the S-30 series of S-boats of mermaids, dolphins snakes etc and while I have no solid proof, there seems to be a loose correlation between S-boot and R-boot flotilla insignia / logos. Maybe the logos were not removed when vessels were transferred from one theatre of war to another. Guess there were other priorities ! Perhaps others could add to this one way or the other. There was also considerable joint operations between S-boots and R-boots but little attention is given to reference works of this, but you will notice in some reports where some boats sunk thru enemy action resulted in sinkings of both types at the engagement.
A common logo that appears thru both S and R boots are a "V" on its side apparently in red [ anticlockwise 45 degrees ] and also card suites ..clubs, hearts, diamonds, spades and sometimes a full set together.

Some R-boots I have seen in dock in Adriatic ports being cannibalised by the look of it wore a dark two tone camo on them more akin to army camo patterns. Look on Ebay under " Italien: Räumboot der Kriegsmarine im Hafen von La Spezia - R01521 " and you will see what I am talking about. I have also seen a three colour effect on dark / medium /light [ colour unknown ] at about a 40 degree anglerunning in bands / strips

I have some notes I am happy to share for personal use with others if interested.
You are welcome to contact me off board ... Cheers

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:47 am 
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Iron Duke wrote:
Russian magazine Morskaya Kollektsia

This is the Schnellboot magazine which appears to be long out of print:
MKL-199902 Morskaya Kollektsia N2 1999: Schnellboot. German Navy WW2 Torpedo Boats

Anyone got a copy of this they would like to sell ?? :thumbs_up_1:

It's not hard.
tyngyc-74@yandex.ru

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Just wondering of anyone has a paper model from G.K.-Verlag 1/250 of R-49 and not worried if its built or still in packet, that they would be interested to sell ?
Please get back to me if you have one ..

Cheers :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:00 pm 
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I've just been researching the fate of Raumboote in the Mediterranean and came across something that was a bit different ...

10 August 1944
The R-boat R34 is sunk after being hit by a crashed Allied aircraft, at 0130 hrs in the Aegean near Milos.
Position 36° 42N 24° 27E.


Link : http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/kriegs ... r-boat.htm [ Good site to find info on these boats and more ]

What are the chances of this .... Guess it was a very bitter campaign, and this was about six months before the Japanese started using the Kamikaze. I know the Japanese took a lot of notice of the RN raid on Taranto by Swordfish as a case study for Pearl Harbour. Maybe they became aware of this, and took it to the next level in the last months of the Pacific war.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:10 pm 
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There were a number of times where shot down AC hit the ships that they were targeting. If I remember correctly the SS Ohio of Malta fame was crashed by a German plane during the pedestal convoy, and either the Mogami or the Mikuma was hit by a US plane during the battle of Midway. Given the history of Japanese Banzai (suicide) attacks I don't believe that that sinking would influence their tactics.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:17 am 
1/72 resin R-boats mentioned here...http://henk.fox3000.com/mgm2.htm

also F-prahm and similar. I don't know the prices.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:47 pm 
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I have tabulated the 6. 11. and 12 Flottilla in the Mediterranean during the Second World War, detailing grave sites / locations of various boats. As there as been some discussion on 12th Flotilla boats posted here, listed below for anyone interested.


12.Räumboot Casualities in the Mediterranean Theatre : Chronologically
Date : Flottilla : Räumboot : Incident Report Summary _

1943 12 th The R40 brought in to be cannibalised, broken up, and scrapped.
25 July 1943 12 th The R186 is sunk after being attacked by Allied aircraft, at 1615 hrs, near Spadafora., 2 crew lost. Position 38° 16' 7N 15° 28' 8E Position 38° 16' 7N 15° 28' 8E
29 February 1944 12 th The R194 is sunk after being attacked by Allied aircraft due to explosions on board at 0930 hrs, near Cape Stylos, Corfu, 7 crew lost. Position 39° 41N 19° 59E
27 March 1944 12 th The R188 is sunk after being attacked by Allied aircraft, at 0938 hrs in the Bay of Povlije.
Position 43° 20' 4N 16° 17' 5E
29 March 1944 12 th The R191 sinks due to the severity of the damage caused by Allied aircraft on the 27 March 1944, at 1000 hrs in the Bay of Povlije. Position 43° 20' 4N 16° 17' 5E.
20 May 1944 12 th The R190 is sunk after being attacked by Allied aircraft, at 0610 hrs in the Straits of Otranto.
10 August 1944 12 th The R34 was sunk after being hit by a crashing Allied aircraft, at 0130 hrs in the Aegean near Milos.
Position 36° 42N 24° 27E.
27 August 1944 12 th The R38 is sunk after being hit by a mine, it in the Aegean, West of Paros.
Position 37° 05N 25° 08E.
12 Sept 1944 12 th The R178 is sunk cause unknown, at Saloniki Position 40° 38N 22° 57E.
30 October 1944 12 th The R210 is sunk cause unknown, at Thessaloniki. Position 40° 38N 22° 57E.
30 October 1944 12 th The R211 is sunk cause unknown at Thessaloniki. Position 40° 38N 22° 57E.
31 October 1944 12 th The R185 is sunk cause unknown, at Saloniki. Position 40° 38N 22° 57E.
31 October 1944 12 th The R195 is sunk cause unknown, at Saloniki. Position 40° 38N 22° 57E.

Summary
R34 Sunk – Aircraft [ hit by a crashing Allied aircraft ]
R38 Sunk - Mine
R40 Cannibalised and Scrapped
R178 Sunk - cause unknown = [ Scuttled and abandoned by crew ]
R185 Sunk - cause unknown = [ Scuttled and abandoned by crew ]
R186 Sunk - Air attack
R188 Sunk – Air attack
R190 Sunk – Air attack
R191 Sunk – Air attack
R194 Sunk – Air attack
R195 Sunk - cause unknown = [ Scuttled and abandoned by crew ]
R210 Sunk - cause unknown = [ Scuttled and abandoned by crew ]
R211 Sunk - cause unknown = [ Scuttled and abandoned by crew ]

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:37 pm 
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An interesting photo on the Net I have just spotted.
Guess this may have been early in the War ... the crewman looks pretty relaxed !

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Has anyone got access to photos / information about R-184, that was sunk in the English Channel after an engagement with Royal Navy MTB's / MGB's.
The crew were rescued by the RN and interrogated which provides a lot of insight into operations of Raumboote units and flotillas. See Link .

Link : http://www.uboatarchive.net/Int/R-184INT.htm

At the time of sinking R-184 was described as having a black n white camouflage in the shape of triangles.

Page 9.
(xxiii) Camouflage
"R 184" was camouflaged black and white in triangles. "

Any info appreciated...

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