The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:27 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

The use of wooden deck accessory add-on
Yes, real wood decks give life that is hard to achieve with paint, and they make paint work easier.
Yes, but only on older models that lack molded planking detail.
I MUST USE THEM SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY EXIST AND MY MODEL ISN'T COMPLETE WITHOUT EVERY SINGLE ADD ON POSSIBLE!!!
No, they shouldn't be used and should be painted instead, because they aren't really needed, and only add to the cost of the project.
No, because they might begin to buckle and lift off after time, and Painting them is the safer option.
No in 1/350 and smaller scales, yes in larger scales.
You may select 1 option

View results
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:12 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Up The Street From Sam Wilson's House
I'm still split about whether or not to use wooden decks on my models, primarily because of the issues I have with the two that I have already used staying stuck down, and buckling and lifting, and also because the newer kits in both 1/350 and 1/200 have some really nice molded planking detail that with a proper paint job, should look really nice.

So I'm throwing up a poll for the use of wooden deck accessories.

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson


Last edited by Thomas E. Johnson on Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:10 am
Posts: 41
Location: Hungen , Hessen , Germany
Hello !

Cause im scratch building my models usually in 1/72 im planking my decks myself without using after market products.
But , no rule without exception , i of course used the the wooden deck that was included my 1/72 Revell Snowberry kit.

As my models are radio controlled im gluing planking piece by piece and finally seal it with special coat to avoid buckling and lifting.

_________________
Kind regards , Lutz

Actual project : CVE-60 Guadalcanal , scale 1:72 Radio controlled

"I dont have friends : i have a hand-picked gathering of maniacs"


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Posts: 1424
Location: Belgium
I'm not a fan myself.

Mostly, I don't like the slightly raised look around details they create, no matter how thin the wooden deck is. Sometimes they also create very small gaps between them and superstructure parts.

I also don't like if they show any woodgrain or 'roughness' to their surface. Both look out of scale to me.

I also prefer a more subdued look to a deck, blended with the coloration of the rest of the model, rather than the natural wood colour they come in. So even if I would ever use a wooden deck, I would paint it anyway. And in that case, I would rather avoid the disadvantages mentioned above, the effort of applying the add-on deck, and the risk of it lifting later.

I only see myself using a real wooden deck in small scales (1/700 - 1/350) if the kit's deck pattern is awfull and needs replacing. But even then, I would first look into plastic alternatives to avoid the woodgrain. Also, wooden decks are harder to paint and weather because they soak up the paint. Especially washes are problematic on them.

But while I feel confident with brush and paint myself and don't mind the time needed to properly paint a wooden deck, I realize wooden decks can be a real time-saver and can give a crisper look for many people. Also, many people prefer a more pristine look to their model and/or the colours to be more saturated, and in both cases the natural wood look can fit very well.

So, I don't prefer them for my own models, but I can see why others do and I can appreciate them on their models.

Cheers,

Marijn


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 30, 2013 1:50 pm
Posts: 1980
Odd...none of the posters like, or use them, but in the poll the "yes" faction is winning by an overwhelming landslide. Gee...just like national elections! :big_grin:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:21 pm
Posts: 225
As a long time ship modeler, I can see the pro's and con's of wooden decks. I tried them again after a long hiatus, having used the Nautilus deck on my 1/350 Lexington 10 years ago. That was different in that the wood was a one for one replacement of the plastic flight deck.

I am building the Dragon Scharnhorst 1941, and decided to try the peel and stick wood decking on this build. I too have a peeve that some decks swallow fittings, so I looked for the thinnest mil deck I could find, in this case Wood Hunter. Plus the whole set with PE shipped airmail from Hong Kong was less than $25. Why I went with the aftermarket deck is that wood decking has filler and cheater boards to edge the deck and box-in fittings. The good sets replicate this detail, providing more realism than a well painted straight groove deck. It works well for bleached, sanded decks. I don't like the look as much for wartime painted decks, and prefer to paint the plastic unless it is a raised detail deck. It did alter the way I assemble ships, but I was very pleased with the results and will likely go that route again for unpainted decks.

_________________
Charles Landrum
USNA 1983
Norfolk, Virginia


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:52 pm
Posts: 357
Location: Inverness
Wouldn't buy a kit for which there was no after-market wood deck. End of.

Cheers, Jabb

_________________
On the way - a rusty Liberty with lots of goodies!

----------------------------------------------------------

I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:26 am
Posts: 1688
Location: The Netherlands
For 1:700, it's overkill.

_________________
If all else fails, a complete pig-headed refusal to see facts in the face will see us through. - General Melchett


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:31 pm
Posts: 327
Location: Cornwall, UK
I'm not a big fan of wood decks. I would prefer to see a sheet of decals providing the wood grain effect, leaving us to paint the deck with the suitable base colour.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 594
Location: Downey, California
I'd have an easier time responding to the poll if it had made some reference to scale. I think they look very overdone in 1:700 and would only use them there to replace a poor kit representation (or to cover badly placed seams - Dragon Arizona's nasty cross-deck joints, for example). In 1:350 I rather like them, though I do like to run a fine sanding stick over them to tone down the intensity.
What I really don't understand, through, is the aftermarket wood decks stained blue. Okay, for carriers maybe, so you still get the grain texture (but in any of these typical scales?), but for battleships and cruisers where the real things were painted - all you need is just the planking, the grain texture is covered in paint on the real thing! Just paint the plastic deck blue (or whatever color is applicable to your subject.)

- Sean F.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:36 am
Posts: 426
I do 1/700 scale and don't tend to use them. The 'wooden deck makes painting easier' is a red herring. For that I use deck paint masks. You cannot apply a wooden deck after everything is painted (tacky deck on painted surface? sure fire way for 'we have a liftoff'), not is it logistically feasible, unless you can fit pieces of tacky deck inside/between PE railings, I don't dare do such surgical work (and blind faith in the wooden deck's measurements). So in cases where I DID use a deck, I still find myself having to

- putting it on and reinforce with superglue from holes before other PE bits
- mask the deck again before installing PE railing bits
- paint the rest of the ship
- still have to do additional painting on the wooden deck to reduce the grain/lasered planks
- and finally seal everything properly so hopefully it doesn't warp in 2 years time

All ended up with a result that's not necessarily better than a painted deck to begin with? Talk about wasted effort.

I can sort of understand for larger scales though, particular when the planks provided on kit are a bit of the big side...Or, if I just build OOB without PE railing and put on a deck as an afterthought.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:36 pm
Posts: 189
From what I've seen from a couple of wood deck manufactures, the deck is not accurate! My last ship had a teak deck, and every plank next to a bulkhead was custom cut to fit around what ever it was next to. They were custom fit around the superstructure for at least one plank and all the other planks were custom fit to match them. Planking kits lead you to believe that all planks ran fore and aft no matter what part of the superstructure they touch. NOT SO! My last ship was USS Prairie, built in 1938. I took note of how the planking was laid.

I won't vote, yes I like wood deck in 1/350, no they are not accurate.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:12 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Up The Street From Sam Wilson's House
My whole fear is the deck buckling and lifting. It happened with my 1/350 1991 Missouri, needing surgery to repair, numourous times.

I've added an option for using them based on scale, which also seems to have reset the whole poll back to zero..... :heh:

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:06 am
Posts: 967
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
I have bought two sets of wooden decks up to date and both buckled off really crazy! My Tamiya Tirpitz is really suffering from this. I know this can be fixed with glueing, but painting is a better alternative for my next builds.

The greatest concern is that the planking pattern of many kits are inaccurate, overscaled, and have raised lines instead of engraved ones (including Tamiya Tirpitz.) Some do have engraved lines, but they are too deep and visible. This can be fixed using Evergreen car siding stuffs, but it would require a lot of measuring and cutting to match well with the kit's deck. Not a very good option for beginners and intermediate modelers, really. However, I would be happy if those companies produce a stronger adhesive wooden decks and also make them thinner, like Infini models did.
Sometimes plastic kits contain errors on the deck (some stuffs that shouldn't be there), and add-on decks simply follow the pattern (for fitting reason, obviously) leaving holes and gaps. So a better solution is using said Evergreen plastic.

Wooden deck colors are usually not very realistic. The Pontos deck for Tirpitz is a bit too yellow and too bright, but the producer did nothing wrong with this - no wood material at all can look accurate in this scale, even when you use, say, real Tirpitz teak. The color changes with distance, and painting the plastic deck can replicate this, especially for dioramas. Wet/dryness of wood also affect the color a lot. These could of course be painted on wooden decks (I'm planning to do it on my Tirpitz), but that can increase moisture, making them buckle off even easier.

But for those who just paint plain brown on the deck, add-on wooden deck is a very good choice.
1/200 scale decks might be more to-scale, and if someone makes them thinner and finer, with accurate pattern, then that would be really good.

Just my opinion anyway, and everyone has their own thoughts...so have fun modelling! :smallsmile:

Aop

_________________
On the way:
--1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

--1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

And our artworks!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:12 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Up The Street From Sam Wilson's House
Aop Aur wrote:
I have bought two sets of wooden decks up to date and both buckled off really crazy! My Tamiya Tirpitz is really suffering from this. I know this can be fixed with glueing, but painting is a better alternative for my next builds.

The greatest concern is that the planking pattern of many kits are inaccurate, overscaled, and have raised lines instead of engraved ones (including Tamiya Tirpitz.) Some do have engraved lines, but they are too deep and visible. This can be fixed using Evergreen car siding stuffs, but it would require a lot of measuring and cutting to match well with the kit's deck. Not a very good option for beginners and intermediate modelers, really. However, I would be happy if those companies produce a stronger adhesive wooden decks and also make them thinner, like Infini models did.
Sometimes plastic kits contain errors on the deck (some stuffs that shouldn't be there), and add-on decks simply follow the pattern (for fitting reason, obviously) leaving holes and gaps. So a better solution is using said Evergreen plastic.

Wooden deck colors are usually not very realistic. The Pontos deck for Tirpitz is a bit too yellow and too bright, but the producer did nothing wrong with this - no wood material at all can look accurate in this scale, even when you use, say, real Tirpitz teak. The color changes with distance, and painting the plastic deck can replicate this, especially for dioramas. Wet/dryness of wood also affect the color a lot. These could of course be painted on wooden decks (I'm planning to do it on my Tirpitz), but that can increase moisture, making them buckle off even easier.

But for those who just paint plain brown on the deck, add-on wooden deck is a very good choice.
1/200 scale decks might be more to-scale, and if someone makes them thinner and finer, with accurate pattern, then that would be really good.

Just my opinion anyway, and everyone has their own thoughts...so have fun modelling! :smallsmile:

Aop


To deep engraved lines molded into the deck don't bother me, considering how much various details are exaggerated to make them stand out on our models.

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:25 am
Posts: 2147
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
You don't have an "I don't know" or "It depends on the Model" option(s).

I know that for the Early-war USS Portland, and the other Early-War USN Cruisers, that the few for whom a wooden deck is made might be a decent addition. Especially in the case of the Wooden Deck made for the Tamiya USS Indianapolis -> Portland Conversion.

But I have been looking at other possible Wooden Decks, such as those for the HIJMS Shōkaku and Zuikaku, as well as many others I have seen for various IJN Carriers.

And the vast majority of these do not look like Wooden Decks I would use.

One of the requirements that I made for myself was "No Wooden Decks that have a raised lip adjacent to a metal deck where the Wooden Deck on the real ship would have been flush with an adjacent metal deck.

For a couple of ships, I can shave down the Plastic Deck so that the wood sits flush with the adjacent "Metal" portion of the decking.

And a couple of the IJN Carrier "Wooden Deck Kits" contain PE that sits flush adjacent to the Wooden Deck, so that there are no raised lips on the Wooden Deck edges.

So... For me... It would be "It depends upon the kit and decking."

MB

_________________
OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:12 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Up The Street From Sam Wilson's House
For me the issue is keeping them secured down tight. The two that I have used lifted and buckled out in the open sections (I secured the edges with thin CA when I first installed them).

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 2:28 pm
Posts: 34
SargentX has a tutorial in the tips and tricks section where he kills the self adhesive with matt varnish and adheres the deck with heavy gel medium. I am going to try this on my current CA38 build. Worth a look for those who haven't seen it.

_________________
Denny


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 2025
Location: Harlan, Kentucky, U.S.A.
I've only bought two wooden decks, both for kits still in the 'stash. One for my Merit 1/350 U.S.S. Yorktown and the other for my Academy 1/350 U.S.S. Indianapolis. The more I look at both of them (they are both war-time blue) the more I debate whether to use either of them, or just paint the plastic.

Bob M.

_________________
Give me a fast ship, for I would like to get out of harm's way!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:12 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Up The Street From Sam Wilson's House
D. Lindsey wrote:
SargentX has a tutorial in the tips and tricks section where he kills the self adhesive with matt varnish and adheres the deck with heavy gel medium. I am going to try this on my current CA38 build. Worth a look for those who haven't seen it.


I will check it out.

_________________
Thomas E. Johnson

http://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasEJohnson


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:25 am
Posts: 2147
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
I need to look it up, but in the Textiles class I took when I was a kid had a part on adhesives where we learned a trick to make the adhesives on tapes stick more strongly.

It was something about a mixture of a solvent and another chemical that reacted to the adhesive to form a bond like contact cement (in other words: pretty freaking strong). Some of us made the mistake of seeing if it would stick to our skin and wound up looking like fools for a few weeks with sections of masking-tape stuck to use like they had been superglued.

It might only work with specific types of gum adhesive, though... But it would certainly make getting self-adhesive wooden decks attached.

MB

_________________
OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group