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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Hello all!!

One thing that bothers me is how to attain scale painting affect and breaking up the monochrome grey of 1/700 IJN carriers and ships.

Are decks guns bridges supports everything etc all the same colors?. U see great work in the galleries but on one hand colors are grey and if you want to make details pop is that realistic? I guess you need to bring out details drybrushing etc and washes to blend it all back together. Please respond with specific color variations that you use for different parts and weathering if possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:42 pm 
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A question that will get you as many answers as there are modelers. GENERALLY, yes, gray is gray (unless you are English - then it's grey) MOST of the time, unless there are specific camo pattern to be followed, if you look at the painting orders for most US Ships it was "vertical surfaces.... gray" Horizontal surfaces.... blue or whatever)

As for scale effects, you have to understand that 1/700 means one unit of measure for every 700 of real life. Put another way being one foot from the model is the same as seeing the real thing 700 feet away. In other words, at 700 feet for example, you aren't going to see things like hull plating or shading etc. You won't see individual deck planking or even color differences.

While hull plating, shading differences, minor weathering etc. make for very interesting and visually pleasing models, they are generally not accurate when the scale is considered.

In my humble opinion, most weathering on 1/700 scales ships is over done and out of scale if you can see it with the naked eye from more than a foot or two away. Same is true for rigging for that matter. In most pics from the era (taken from hundreds of feet away usually) rigging is only seen in glimpses and only when the light is at the right angle.

So, you can make perfectly accurate representations given scale or you can make visually pleasing and detailed models to be enjoyed up close. Whatever floats your boat as they say.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:01 pm 
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djandj wrote:

In my humble opinion, most weathering on 1/700 scales ships is over done and out of scale if you can see it with the naked eye from more than a foot or two away. Same is true for rigging for that matter. In most pics from the era (taken from hundreds of feet away usually) rigging is only seen in glimpses and only when the light is at the right angle.


Hmmmm...is this applicable to deck railings and other fine PE, etc? They're also not very distinct from 700 ft.
:wave_1:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Location: South Carolina
I disagree about weathering (see WW2 photo of New Orleans). The weathering along the sides of the hull is not merely visible, it's conspicuous. At the same time, the rigging is only visible in fragments, and the railings are quite hard to make out. 1/700 scale railings (even ultra fine) are considerably more substantial than real life railings. Real life railings are maybe 95-98% air when viewed from the side (2-5% solid stuff). PE railings are only 80-90% air (10-20% solid stuff), so they gain visibility relative to the full size equivalent. My bottom line on rigging at 1/700 is make it as fine in diameter as possible. I have rigging lines that I have trouble seeing from 2-3 feet away from my model, and that's how it should be. I have rigging thread and wire that are finer in diameter than the bars in my PE railings.

Dave Koopman


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:09 am 
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djandj wrote:

In my humble opinion, most weathering on 1/700 scales ships is over done and out of scale if you can see it with the naked eye from more than a foot or two away. Same is true for rigging for that matter. In most pics from the era (taken from hundreds of feet away usually) rigging is only seen in glimpses and only when the light is at the right angle.

So, you can make perfectly accurate representations given scale or you can make visually pleasing and detailed models to be enjoyed up close. Whatever floats your boat as they say.


I think one can do a lot of weathering on 1/700 without going overboard. Tone variations are possible. Color variations while muted are possible. In my humble experience there are just some people who pickup 1/700 and lack that ability to go into detail and knock a model out as if it is a tank and just cant be bothered making lots of tiny changes to make it look realistic. And then they call it impossible. Look at Jim Baumans models for example. They are all weathered. They to me look fantastic. Wish he did a full hull 1/700 but otherwise, they are superb.

OP, if you ever can, go stand 700 feet away from a battleship and see what you can see. I bet a lot.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:52 am 
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We also do not need to have our heads jammed in the singular perspective of pretending our models are full size objects viewed from far away.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:10 am 
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SovereignHobbies wrote:
We also do not need to have our heads jammed in the singular perspective of pretending our models are full size objects viewed from far away.



This has always been my view, especially with regards to 'scale effect' for paints. There's no magical barrier (aside from the display case) that stops you from moving closer or further to the model, so trying to account for some arbitrary real life viewing distance's effect makes little sense.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:36 am 
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DavidK wrote:
I disagree about weathering (see WW2 photo of New Orleans). The weathering along the sides of the hull is not merely visible, it's conspicuous. At the same time, the rigging is only visible in fragments, and the railings are quite hard to make out. 1/700 scale railings (even ultra fine) are considerably more substantial than real life railings. Real life railings are maybe 95-98% air when viewed from the side (2-5% solid stuff). PE railings are only 80-90% air (10-20% solid stuff), so they gain visibility relative to the full size equivalent. My bottom line on rigging at 1/700 is make it as fine in diameter as possible. I have rigging lines that I have trouble seeing from 2-3 feet away from my model, and that's how it should be. I have rigging thread and wire that are finer in diameter than the bars in my PE railings.

Dave Koopman


Dave - granted the pic is in B&W, but the ONLY reason you see ANY weathering is b/c the camo scheme is dark blue and the weathering is severe. You still don't see rusting etc. As I said, you don't see rigging much at all and tough to see railings. Yes, I agree that railings in scale for 1/700 would be unmanageable, but the alternative is to have nothing. Weathering, however, CAN be applied lightly and sparingly. Rigging CAN be done with an eye towards scale. I still think the 2-3 foot rule makes sense for us to use as a rule of thumb. But, as always, the beauty of modeling is.... there are no "right" answers - only answers that make the builder happy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:56 am 
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This whole area is hotly contested and everyone has an opinion on it. My perspective is that it's kind of like asking what flavor of ice cream is the best. There is no right answer as it is a personal preference. I build almost exclusively 1/700 scale ships and while I agree that any railings and rigging are overscale, I feel that it adds to the overall impression of the way a ship looks in real life when you add them. I'm not that good at weathering so I rarely attempt to weather my builds, but there are some builders that, in my opinion, achieve a very realistic impression when they weather their models. It really comes down to the maxim that you should build to your own preferences. :smallsmile:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:52 am 
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Location: Oslo, Norway
Ships, naval and merchant alike, can look surprisingly scruffy in photographs taken in "real life" as opposed to the very pretty fresh-out-of-drydock portrait shots. Rust-streaks below the anchors, an overall rusty patina on the decks, dirt-streaks down the side from the scuppers, faded and peeling paint. Stuff that would be clearly visible in 1/700 scale.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:35 am 
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Whilst there is no exact right or wrong answer, it's clear that some are less right or wrong than others.

As a general rule for modelling, any extreme view is highly likely to give a poor result that the 80th percentile of modellers would agree is a mediocre effort. Painting a ship an even, overall flat grey is unconvincing and uninteresting to look at. Equally, going at it hammer and tongs with more effects than a Hollywood CGI studio all applied heavy handedly will also look unconvincing and whilst perhaps not uninteresting to look at, may result in a negative impression anyway if it all looks too contrived.

Moderation and subtlety is the key. Even brand new a warship does not look like it has a robot-applied uniformly sprayed on paint coat. Equally though, no real warship ever looks equally distressed around the superstructure aft of midships as it does around the bow.

It became very fashionable to run dark washes into all panel lines on aircraft models in the 90s, and at least one IPMS judge commented in a magazine that he considered uniformity of the wash in all panel lines. Clearly the gentleman was singularly unqualified to judge having very apparently never stood within 600 yards of a real aircraft which have a distinct habit of getting rather filthy behind and under engine cowlings and behind and above the wheels but not out at the wingtips which never see errant grime. It's as ridiculous as expecting a model car to have an equal amount of grime smeared over the roof as under the floor. Equally though, one only sees pristine white floor pans on cars that live in carcoons and get trailered to shows with covers over the tyres to stop them getting grass in the treads.

In short, know your subject. :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:48 am 
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It is noticeable that hulls tend to be much more weathered than superstructures. Partly this is because there is simply more wear on the hull (the bow-wave in particular can scrub the paint clean off) and partly because the crew can repaint the superstructure while at sea, and are probably actively encouraged to do so because idle hands and all that, while the hull is basically inaccessible until you get to a port. Decks are somewhere in between, they can be painted at sea but not really painted well.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:56 am 
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Location: Los Angeles and Houston
DavidK wrote:
I disagree about weathering (see WW2 photo of New Orleans). The weathering along the sides of the hull is not merely visible, it's conspicuous. At the same time, the rigging is only visible in fragments, and the railings are quite hard to make out. 1/700 scale railings (even ultra fine) are considerably more substantial than real life railings. Real life railings are maybe 95-98% air when viewed from the side (2-5% solid stuff). PE railings are only 80-90% air (10-20% solid stuff), so they gain visibility relative to the full size equivalent. My bottom line on rigging at 1/700 is make it as fine in diameter as possible. I have rigging lines that I have trouble seeing from 2-3 feet away from my model, and that's how it should be. I have rigging thread and wire that are finer in diameter than the bars in my PE railings.

Dave Koopman


This photo was what I used to help detail the weathering on my USS SF. I used a photo of the SF for the pattern,but the NO photo had better detail visible... Some extrapolation required.

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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