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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Dean,

Thet looks pretty good. I would add additional frames up forward where the hull curves - you can't have too many frames where the hull curves. Midships the frames are OK. The stern looks good.

The center element from keel up is the most important. It is all too easy to get a warped hull as you plank/plate the hull. The keel really needs to be strong.

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:05 am 
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I agree with Phil; at least double the number of frames forward. Otherwise it looks great!

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:28 am 
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Thanks Phil and Devin, much appreciated.

OK, so double the frames forward, and what about mid-ship, do you think it would be better to add more frames there too? Maybe one each between the existing frames?

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:34 am 
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As Phil said, you want more frames forward and aft as that's where the curve is. The more lines on that curve, the smoother it'll be.

The frames amidships are fine as-is, no need to add any. Amidships all of the frames are the same, so it's essentially a straight shot, no curving at all.

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:02 pm 
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Quick update, added some more forward frames. Let me know if you guys think that is enough or maybe a few more would be better.
Also, I'll adjust the spacing a bit on the final, then when everyone is satisfied with it, I'll dig into it more and put up an exploded view showing the notches and such. The green parts are there to show the flat sections of the covering that can be pre cut and laid into place.

Image

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Dean,

That looks good. The extra frames forward will ensure the hull surface will follow the correct lines. Midships you don't need any more.

I think you can use just the one longitudinal frame on the centerline - the transverse frames are enough to mold the hull shape. If you add the two extra longitudinals outboard the keel they will make the structure stronger, but they will complicate the assembly.

What do others think?

Phil

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:54 am 
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Good point on the longitudinal supports or keels. While they definitely would help with stability, they would probably prove a lot of extra effort on the build.

I actually used a three keel setup on the Carondelet build I'm doing, but it was easier as the space between them was left empty for the paddlewheel cutout.

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Thanks guys, it's really helpful to have your input on this.

What I can do is show an exploded assembly both ways, one with just the single keel longeron and one with the three, then once you see how each interlocks together you can decide which you like better, and we'll go with that. What do you think?

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Yeah, that sounds good.

You mention them interlocking, and I see what look like tabs and slots in the drawing. That's an interesting concept. I'm not sure how it'll work out with styrene as those notches and tabs will have to be cut into the styrene to make use of them, but I like the idea of it.

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Hmmmm, remember that laser-cutter thingy that Bernard Kempinski was using to build the Passaic for his railroad layout? I wonder how much one of those costs. Sounds darned usefull right about now!!

Owen


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Owen,
You must have been reading my mind. :big_grin:

Devin,
having it Laser cut is what I was thinking you might consider for this, it's used all the time for RC aircraft and RC ships. If you were to have all the framing cut from say lite ply or basswood (lite ply is cheaper), you can still use the styrene to cover/sheet/plank it with. I've used it myself on my scratch-builds and the fit and ease of assembly just can't be matched compared to hand cut. For something like the Chickasaw, wood included, I would guess somewhere around $50-$70 depending on how much is cut. It's really not that hard to make cut-files for laser cutting, I could handle that without much effort and send them directly to the cutter, then you would get the parts mailed to you and your ready to assemble. Big time saver on a build if you ask me. Just a thought...

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:08 pm 
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Dean,

Interesting. Do you know if they can cut styrene as well as wood? I have a hang-up with using wood and plastic so close together in a build like this (which is one reason why I won't use the new cool wooden decks that everyone raves about for 1/350th scale ships).

Still, doing it in wood could be a cool experiment, I'll just have to figure the best way to work it. In 1/200, where I plan on packing the area between the frames with epoxy putty and sanding it to shape, it might not be bad at all.

-Devin

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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Devin,
not sure if they cut styrene or not, I'll have to check. My bad on the price quote (brain fart) :smallsmile: , I was basing it on 1/96th scale, so the 1/200th should be less.

Edit: they do cut styrene, here's a link to check out.
http://customlasercutting.com/

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Here's a short video of what I was talking about with the interlocking notches for the main frame. This is just an example not the final layout.

Not sure why this video won't embed, so here's the link.
http://youtu.be/HOrvrdi6kiw?hd=1

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:58 am 
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I love this video.

Since you are setting up for laser or waterjet cutting, it might be useful to design and cut one or more construction jigs. The structure you have appears to be pretty much self-aligning, but sometimes it is possible to build a lighter, slightly less intricate boat (or aircraft) using simple bench jigs that establish spacing and alignment but are left behind. The turtledecking might be easier to apply using precut fixtures.

On laser cut balsa planes, I try to completely assemble a major component like a fuse or wing -- and only then apply glue. I use penetrating aliphatic to secure already fitted joints. I probably spend more time on jigs and fixtures than I do on the model.

One of several problems I have noticed with the Real World is that it has no automatic "ortho" setting. Hence the jigging.

I hope you and Devin are planning to market this ship as a kit or laser cut short kit. Put me on the waiting list!

Devin, is there a technical reason to avoid mixed media like plywood and styrene? Different rates of expansion or something? Because it seems as though a mixture (wooden frame, plastic skin) might be easier to construct.

Michael


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Thanks Michael,
Yeah at first I thought about using a jig, but my other thought was to make assembly simple enough were a jig or fixture was not really needed, at least for the main frame. But your right, if your looking for building it lite and lean, or have some tricky areas jigs are very helpful. Anyway, I think Devin wants to use filler on the frame and sand it in, instead of covering it with the styrene sheets. Oh, I should mention that this will be 1/200th scale (roughly 13.75" long), not the original size of the CAD model.
And I still have some more ideas to work on, so it may end up somewhat different, nothing is final yet.

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:06 pm 
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This is 21st Century modelling!!! Can we get a pledge from Devin of a thread documenting the build?

How are you going to fab the turret and pilot house?

Owen


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:39 pm 
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tea monster wrote:
Can we get a pledge from Devin of a thread documenting the build?

How are you going to fab the turret and pilot house?

Owen


Yeah, let's put Devin on the hot seat :big_grin: ...

Good question on the turret/pilothouse/smokestack, maybe styrene/plastic tube with cut-out rings to slide into place for the sections on the smokestack, for the turrets, either tube and cut rings at the top and base, or frame it up and wrap styrene around it, same on the pilothouse. Devin can decide which way he wants to go, I'm easy that way :smallsmile: .

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:49 pm 
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Roscoe, go with .040" plastic to skin the hull. i use that on my 1/144 scale ships & my warspite is about 52" long & about 6.5" wide.


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 Post subject: Re: The CAD-yard
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:28 pm 
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DavidP,
Thanks for the tip, if you have more you'd like to share or any suggestions on the layout, feel free to post them, the more options the better.

Dean


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