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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:54 pm 
Hi EVeryone,

I am building a 1/144 aircraft carrier hull. I have a good idea of what to do from the rear of the ship to the front (cross section in U or V shape) exept for the front part of the hull, I have no idea of how to make this part of the hull. Someone told me to carve a balsa cube but I wonder if we could do this hull section with cross section like the rest of the hull. On every scartchbuilt carrier pictures we can see on the net , builder never show the front hull section.....so I'm asking here to know if someone couls show me some pictures or tell the trick to build this hull section.
Thanks everyone
Patrick


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:20 am 
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Hi Patrick ,

could you show us the project you're building , there are so many different hull shapes by carriers , I don't think we could be able to help you further on without a picture .

Anyway , I'm against wooden blocks , I prefer to avoid them if I can , because wooden blocks are not so easily to carve and sand to the right shape , the modeller is always afraid to sand more than needed , so becomes one a hull with a "fat nose" instead of a right stem ...

Just my thoughts ,

Laurent

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:24 am 
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Hi,

What I want to build is something like the picture you could see at this links:
http://uss.nimitz.free.fr/img/photos/coque/coque_01.jpg
http://uss.nimitz.free.fr/img/photos/coque/coque_02.jpg
I understand how to cut all my cross-sections exept for the bow, the flat part and I can't find any picture of that section anywhere.
I'm against wood block too so that's why I try to find another way to build the bow.
And I forgot to say that I will build my carrier at the WATERLINE.....
Thanks
Patrick


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:54 am 
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I think you just have to "follow" the hull lines in the building. If the technic is plank on frame, necessarily not to carve the front part, but just do the bow as extension of the hull lines.
And exactly, what ship are you building????
Nice regards: Jimmy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:08 am 
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Hi,
I will build the CVN-69 , Eisenhower, just because I want to have the VFA-103 on it :cool_2:

I know that I just have to follow the hull lines but I can't figure how to build the inside frame of the bow, that is why I want to view some pictures....I will do the rest...


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:49 am 
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If I understand your question correctly, I think I have an answer. I couldn't find a photo, which would have made the answer very simple, so here it is in words.

I assume you have the body plan and are cutting frames out using the plan as a guide. I also assume you are attaching the frames to a keel cut into the shape of the carriers profile?

Modelers sometimes use the block carving method for the bow and stern so that they don't have to plank the compound curves typically associated with these areas. The normal plank on frame method is to cut the keel to the shape of the profile, including the bow piece.

I know it's crude, but something like this, with the vertical piece the correct shape of the bow up to the deck.(ignore the dots, I had to put something in to space the angles properly)
............... ___
............. /.. /
............/.. /
._______/__/

Body plans don't always give you enough frames for the bow section, so you might have to make a couple more to follow the curve to the end and support your outer skin properly. This can be done using the lines plan, but you probably don't have one, so you will have to guess.

The new Nimitz bow has a bulb on it
Image

But the original is straight down without the bulb. If you want to do the bulb, you will have to shape it out of foam or wood and attach it after.

Once you have the frames on, simply run the planking to the very end of the keel profile and glue it securely all the way up. Putty and sanding will get you to a smooth edge.

The added problem of the carrier is the large flat front, you will have to put a cross piece on the top front edge of the keel profile and a flat triangular piece on the very front for the higher planks to attach to.

I hope that's clear, I wish I had a photo to show it better.

Good luck!
Darren

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:06 pm 
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Yes I understand. The triangular piece was what I thought...I will try to make some test before the final touch...but if someone have a picture...I will get it!!

Thanks
Patrick


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Admhawk wrote:
If I understand your question correctly, I think I have an answer. I couldn't find a photo, which would have made the answer very simple, so here it is in words.

I assume you have the body plan and are cutting frames out using the plan as a guide. I also assume you are attaching the frames to a keel cut into the shape of the I hope that's clear, I wish I had a photo to show it better.

Good luck!
Darren



Nice pic and explanation!!!! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:05 am 
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Laurent wrote:
Hi Patrick ,

could you show us the project you're building , there are so many different hull shapes by carriers , I don't think we could be able to help you further on without a picture .

Anyway , I'm against wooden blocks , I prefer to avoid them if I can , because wooden blocks are not so easily to carve and sand to the right shape , the modeller is always afraid to sand more than needed , so becomes one a hull with a "fat nose" instead of a right stem ...

Just my thoughts ,

Laurent


ok, we agree that carving may distort the hull causing some inaccuracies.........

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:42 am 
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Very complex the design for the bow of an aircraft carrier.And this discussion may be very complex too!!!!........ The better to do is use a lot of lines to base the building and If your plan is very detailed the best you can get from it.
See the bow for an aircraft carrier in the following photo, BN “São Paulo”....... and them you can see the plan for the bow in 3 sheets........ pay attention for the hull lines pointed in red.......study these lines very carefully and try to “watch” them in 3d.......... I don't think the large front in triangle shape is FLAT, but this triangle in the bow is SPHERICAL and not that easy....................ask please someone to prove me wrong!
I don’t agree with Darren! :heh:
“””””The added problem of the carrier is the large flat front, you will have to put a cross piece on the top front edge of the keel profile and a flat triangular piece on the very front for the higher planks to attach to.””””””.............

:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Nice regards: Jimmy

Attachment:
File comment: Nae São Paulo
Nae SP.jpg
Nae SP.jpg [ 123.65 KiB | Viewed 3055 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: general hull lines
general hull lines.jpg
general hull lines.jpg [ 155.97 KiB | Viewed 3188 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: detail hull lines
detail.jpg
detail.jpg [ 125.95 KiB | Viewed 3070 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:47 am 
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The third sheet......................

Attachment:
File comment: general arrangement bow
gen arrangement bow.jpg
gen arrangement bow.jpg [ 87.05 KiB | Viewed 3062 times ]



Hull lines as extracted from :

http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defens ... ......foch

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:07 am 
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I did some other points with arrows in another view of the bow...see coloured arrows in pink, red, green and yellow that will have to “match” when I glue my planks in those places where I’ll put horizontal wood frames ........... if I begin gluing the central plank then I will go on this operation, “matching” the other planks to the rest of the frames................ these will be more lines to guide my planking.......... :thumbs_up_1:
But the triangle is spherical....not flat!!!

Attachment:
frames.jpg
frames.jpg [ 96.74 KiB | Viewed 3063 times ]

Attachment:
frames (1).jpg
frames (1).jpg [ 129.79 KiB | Viewed 3089 times ]





I mean that ALL LINES will be guiding the planks............that's my way trying the accuracy!

Nice regards: Jimmy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:15 am 
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Bow shots of carriers, as extracted from Navsource..............

Attachment:
027453 stennis.jpg
027453 stennis.jpg [ 91.56 KiB | Viewed 3060 times ]

Attachment:
027111 theodore roosevelt.jpg
027111 theodore roosevelt.jpg [ 71.28 KiB | Viewed 3057 times ]

Attachment:
027034.jpg
027034.jpg [ 102.19 KiB | Viewed 3053 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:18 am 
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still...... Nice shots in Navsource!!!! :thumbs_up_1:

Attachment:
027657 reagan.jpg
027657 reagan.jpg [ 137.91 KiB | Viewed 3053 times ]

Attachment:
027636 reagan.jpg
027636 reagan.jpg [ 77.01 KiB | Viewed 3058 times ]

Attachment:
027602 reagan.jpg
027602 reagan.jpg [ 140.74 KiB | Viewed 3096 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:33 am 
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PatGin wrote:
What I want to build is something like the picture you could see at this links:
http://uss.nimitz.free.fr/img/photos/co ... .jpgThanks
Patrick


Hi Jimmy,

Nice plans and pics. If you go to the link Pat posted, it shows a US CVN and the way they did it, and it is how I tried to describe it, because Pat seems to want to build a carrier like this. Yes, there are curves, but it is probably easiest to start with a flat front for these and round the edges to the degree that you want, like in the one shown. Not perfect, but probably within most peoples skills.

The Sao Paolo is a different beast entirely, and obviously what I describe wouldn't work very well.

Cheers!
Darren

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:31 am 
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Hello Darren!!!
We are in troubles because some photos doesn't allow 3d vision!!!..... and I think is hard to explain the complexity of curved lines in the bow of american carriers...... only in person someone's eye could "understand" the curves!
Yes, just put "São Paulo" plans to show exemple of the diverse lines for the bows. But I told about the spherical triangle co's I have seem some modeller wrongly built these bows, as flat triangles, and it can be avoided. I think that is a good chalenge to build models very accurately, so I insist in this point. I did some study of curved lines ( very rough!!!.... ) in some bow, see the pic, I put coloured curves where I think there are curves..........
The link you put for me doesn't open the web related page, maybe be broken!!!
Attachment:
avant bow.JPG
avant bow.JPG [ 75.61 KiB | Viewed 4181 times ]


Nice regards: Jimmy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:58 am 
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Maybe this discussion can be of help to Patrick.........
Next bow I think is wrong...... I put lines as I think are the "depths"......... The carrier that Claude is building is superb but seens to me that the bow is wrong........ the bow is with a bit of flat.............

Attachment:
coque_01.jpg
coque_01.jpg [ 27.8 KiB | Viewed 4192 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:13 am 
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I post 2 more shots with different angles to help seeing the bow.....ship is USS “Kitty Hawk”........

Attachment:
kh2.jpg
kh2.jpg [ 114.11 KiB | Viewed 4189 times ]

Attachment:
kh.jpg
kh.jpg [ 77.02 KiB | Viewed 4187 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:56 pm 
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Hi Jimmy,

I wouldn't say that the model shown above is wrong. But I would say that the edges need to have more curve put into them.

I understand what you are saying, but I think it is matter of degree. Yes there are curves in the bow. But I don't see as much as you see. What I see is shown below.

In this pic of the Reagan, you can see a prominant weld line go across the front and some creasing from internal welding above it. To my eye, they go straight across for a large portion of the front. The red v outline is what I would call flat. The green circles are where I would use blocks/putty/sanding to make the sides curve into the front.

Image

The following is a set of plans I got from Floating Drydock. They don't show the curves as much as I would like, but you can see that they are understated, rather than over stated.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Finally, even though I strive to make my models as accurate and detailed as I possible can, I don't expect others to. Modeling is supposed to be fun and relaxing so I usually make my responses lean toward that direction. If a model doesn't have quite the exact curve, so be it, hopefully someone had fun making it and is proud of it! :smallsmile:

Cheers! :wave_1:
Darren

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:40 am 
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Hi Darren!!!
Awesome shot of USS "Reagan" you posted ( do you have more??? ), and I can say is the best pic for this discussion. I like very much the green lines you put there showing the curves and the FLAT ( red) triangle, that is smaller than I inicially supposed you were referring to!!!
Our friends draftsmen put us in a big trouble co's we are discussing something that would be some solution for them to give us in drawings. As you do, I have too some hull lines for american carriers, exactly as you posted, and you can agree with the lack and deficiency of details to draw the bows. I'm analysing the words you sent me but right now got very tired and will be posting more later, and I'm here to let you know I'm reading this.................... :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
Yes, modelling is for our fun, but this bow is a headache :heh: ..... Old Town clock in Halifax is easier to scratchbuild!!!
Nice regards from Brazil: Jimmy

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