The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:08 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: Albany, NY
This came up in the Stretched Spru Rigging discussion, and I thought it best to post the query to this forum:

Re replacing/upgrading/scratchbuilding masts: what tools, techniques, and materials would practitioners recommend for a fast and successful start in the practice?

Why my interest?

I've snapped masts on my 1:700 scale vessels and not been able to replace them, yet. I've sagged a mast with attempts to rig, and want stronger materials. I've been frustrated with the not-quite-round mast resulting from spru attachment points.

If there is any scale specific advice (e.g., this tool/technique works better in 1:350 than 1:700), that would be helpful, too.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:59 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Hamilton, Ohio
Brass rod.

It's cheap, readily available in most hobby/craft shops, comes in a wide range of diameters, and is easy to work with.

Tapered masts can be made by simply working it with sandpaper. A tedious operation when done by hand, but it works. You could conciveably place the rod in a Dremel motor/drill motor, and save some time that way, but it's easier to introduce mistakes into the material when using power tools.

Get some and experiment a little, you just might be pleasantly surprised. :thumbs_up_1:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 5:49 pm
Posts: 690
Location: Clovis, CA
Here is what I used for my 1/350 masts, I assume this would work in 1/700 as well with a little modification and practice.

Drill press
3 sided jewelers file
Flat sided jewelers file
4 sided jewelers file
various grit sand paper ranging from 220-400
Piece of scrap wood
Gel super glue
Thin Super glue
Various PE and plastic pieces

I cut a piece of brass rod about an inch longer than I needed and put it in my drill press. I drilled a hole in the scrap piece of wood the same diameter of the brass rod and brought the platen up so that the exposed end of the rod now sat in the wood about 1/16 inch, don't worry about snug fit as once it starts to spin the rod will stay nice an snug and not bend or wobble. I set the drill press to the highest speed setting and went to work using the files to start grinding the taper into the mast and etching the various steps into the mast. It took me about an hour a mast but that is because my drill press only does 360RPM flat out, a Dremel drill press would be great with the higher speed. Once I had the desired taper and shape, I ran the sandpaper up and down to remove as many of the machining marks as possible and smooth everything out. I cut the unwanted ends off the rod and sanded the top smooth and added the yardarm using a thinner piece of brass rod cut to length. I tried to solder, but I wasn't having any luck as I am just too inexperienced with that so I resorted to what I do know, Super Glue! I added a small drop of Gel super glue to "tack" the yardarm in place and let it dry for awhile to ensure everything was straight and where I wanted it. Once the gel was good and dry and everything looked like it should, I gave it a good dousing in thing CA to ensure a good and secure hold and let it dry for a day. After that I just started adding the details that I desired from various bits. Here are the finished products before painting for my 1/350 USS Atlanta CL-51
Attachment:
mast.jpg
mast.jpg [ 140.95 KiB | Viewed 1764 times ]


HTH

Matt

_________________
In the yards right now:
Clearing the slipway for the next project, might be big, might be small


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 454
Now thats what I have been looking for. Thanks D-Boy for putting this thread up. Since I work mainly in 1/700, a good technique for scratching masts has always evaded me, resulting in a "pile of toothpicks".

Come to think about it, not only can the lack of this skillset be a roadblock to rigging, but it can also stand in the way of someone getting into resin kits, since many require you to "roll your own". Here's a few nagging mysteries that I'll throw into the conversation:

Do any of you use assembly jigs or the like to aid in squaring up your assemblies ?

Since the completed metal mast assemblies will now have some weight, do you still plant them at deck level or do you drill down below to attach to "the keel" ?

Do you square off, flatten, or notch the rounded rod to aid in attaching at the glue contact points ?

And what about soldering ? Is it preferable ?

Keep it coming guys....I just put the popcorn in the microwave !
:thumbs_up_1:

_________________
"Why spoil the beauty of a thing with legalities"
Teddy Roosevelt .."The Wind & The Lion"


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:30 am
Posts: 56
Some other material you can use, that I never tried before...

Maybe drummers sticks, or kebab skewers. Both stiff yet flexible.

Fiberglass rod
http://www.amazon.com/1-2f8-22-48-22-So ... B001TO338C


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 1:57 pm
Posts: 1048
Location: Albany, NY
Here's another thread of related interest, http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=75611, re soldering PE.


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:19 pm
Posts: 125
Location: Philippines
nice topic- i was supposed to post a question akin to the subject when i came to this.

now the brass rods are great IF they are available and i guess IF the ship that will have the mast is say destroyer sized up; now my question goes like this- i read somewhere that copper wires can be an alternative of sorts in mast making; but if the ship is of a pt boat size or thereats in 1:700 scale, has anyone tried doing that? and will superglue manage to glue a copper wire of very thin diameter? my option is to do old fashioned sprue stretching ( remember the size and diameter of the stuff i need) or use stylettes of G25 spinal needles ( my alternative to brass rods - i got lotsa that stuff).

thanks in advance!!! :smallsmile:


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:50 pm
Posts: 250
Usually I will super glue in 1/700 or 1/350 . I can and do solder them too. The biggest thing that escapes everyone,s thinking is under " HOW,D he do that ? I do use a lot of modified alligator clips as heat sinks .This is very important in the smaller scales .I use jigs made from brass sheet .015 thick .You can do it without any jigs , but , I don,t recommend that . You can actually get brass tubing small enough to do the job . You SHOULD file the ends in the hollow configuration so you will get a good joint either glued or soldered . The important thing to remember here too, is,when you solder very small parts such as 1/700 scale stuff ,WATCH THAT HEAT ! ,too much heat will cause the brass to re-anneal and you may not like the results .You don,t want to go to all that work to discover your mast is as soft as a bread wrapper twist-tie ! Good luck and I have one closing recommendation . Play with the wire and tubing and your iron on a flat GLASS surface until you are totally comfortable with the motions you will have to make and the way of contacting the brass with the iron.This will also help you find the heat that works best without overheating the parts . An adjustable heat soldering iron is a must .MICRO-MARK and others including HOBBY - LOBBY here in the STATES sells the units for under forty dollars. Again --GOOD LUCK commodore4 P.S.in an experiment I took .010 wire and .020 wire (stanchions) and did a 36" run of 4 run rail in 1/72 . that was a surprise ! it worked !!


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:39 am
Posts: 1343
Location: Harlan, Kentucky, U.S.A.
Strikes me that it also might be worth the trouble of mixing up a very small batch of qucik curing epoxy and use a dab of that to afix the yard arm(s) to the mast. It seems to me that you could even consider using a longer setting epoxy and do as taskforce48 suggests, tack everything, yardarm and other pieces to be attached, at least the larger ones, with a drop of gel superglue and then carefuly apply epoxy to the joint to get a very strong bond.

My .02 cents worth.

Bob

_________________
Just off the ways: 1/350 IJN Yukikaze (Hasegawa)
Building: 1/350 U.S.S. Laffey (Dragon)
1/72 S-100 Schnellboot (Revell)


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:06 am
Posts: 454
commodore4 wrote:
Usually I will super glue in 1/700 or 1/350 . I can and do solder them too. The biggest thing that escapes everyone,s thinking is under " HOW,D he do that ? I do use a lot of modified alligator clips as heat sinks .This is very important in the smaller scales .I use jigs made from brass sheet .015 thick .You can do it without any jigs , but , I don,t recommend that . You can actually get brass tubing small enough to do the job . You SHOULD file the ends in the hollow


Here is something I would love to see a photo of from someone. A "JIG"...I am envisioning some brass tubing soldered to some sort of base at 90 degree angles...then you drop your brass rod main mast in between the tubing and slide in a smaller "yardarm" piece in from the side. Then this is all held captive and square somehow for you to start the tacking process. Am I on track here ?

_________________
"Why spoil the beauty of a thing with legalities"
Teddy Roosevelt .."The Wind & The Lion"


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:33 am
Posts: 365
Location: Yorkshire, Great Britain
For a quick and easy 90 degree solder I just use a 1 inch steel set square and blutack
to hold pieces in place.
Regards
Richard :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
SI VIS PACEM,
PARA BELLUM


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:30 pm
Posts: 3440
Location: Nr Southampton England
>> Since the completed metal mast assemblies will now have some weight, do you still plant them at deck level or do you drill down below to attach to "the keel" ?

Always drill right thru to the keel-- that way the the deck is acting as a support.

If its a waterline ship and your base is thick enough( for plastic ships) drill into the base.
( as on my Mauretania )

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html
Resin is better in this instance here as the hull is solid all the ay though...

HTH

Jim Baumann


quote form the above build article of mine:

The masts were installed before too many fragile fitting’s were installed; these were made of tapered stainless steel welding rod-spun in a drill and tapered with a sanding disc by my friend Steve Foulkes. Being a hollow hull the masts had to extend to the baseboard to give rigidity; were I to do it again I would fill the areas in the mast-mounting areas with wooden blocks and autobodyfiller. In my instance however I had to get the masts mounted and installed. The end of a piece of similar diameter welding rod had and edge ground onto it so as to act in the manner of a drill bit. I carefully-using a cordless drill/screwdriver- drilled a hole at approximately the correct angle through the deck and into the baseboard. The end of the masts proper were heated over a candle-flame and using pliers were pushed through the deck into the baseboard-the heated end allowing adjustment in the baseboard as well at deck level. Lastly, considerable quantities of CA glue were run down the masts through the enlarged deck holes and the masts supported in place using card jigs combined with eyeballing.

After the smoke had cleared (!) the deck was made good with some epoxy and lastly levelled off with white glue. A little thought and planning ahead on my part would have saved a lot of time and nerves….

_________________
....I buy them at three times the speed I build 'em.... will I live long enough to empty my stash...?
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

IPMS UK SIG (special interest group) www.finewaterline.com


Report this post
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group