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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:25 am 
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I HAVE OVERHAULED AND RELOCATED THIS TUTORIAL, NOW FULLY PHOTO-DOCUMENTED:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155661

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Last edited by sargentx on Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:20 am, edited 63 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Very instructive and interesting.
Thank you for your explanations.

This is another method. Styrofoam, Kleenex, fiber fill and gloss acrilic varnish.

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Last edited by Kometa on Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Good Colouring....like the plankton, English waters type effect. Water's the fun part ; )

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:30 pm 
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Bookmarking this thread. may try your technique out this weekend :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Nope...no masking. If you've got a double action brush and go carefully, any overspray is beneficial in my mind. A slight mist only adds to an airy effect.
c

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:41 am 
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Any concerns about the long term stability of organic material, its susceptibility to molds, fungi, insects, mice and such...?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Good question....
I don't think there will be any issues with longevity/chemistry with the oats. In art, conservators are consistently worried about "ground induced discolouration". This means that a substrate (the oats in this case, or the ground of a prepared canvas in art) will yellow and cause discolouration in the subsequent layers through migration of yellowing/moulding elements from the substrate up. In the case of dampening oats and soaking them with carpenters glue....YES, this is a likely fugitive (yellowing/damaging) chemistry. BUT there are numerous products that barrier coat this kind of incursion. Golden or similar acrylic art material brands makes all kinds of acrylic mediums for artists. Using clear acrylic polymer emulsion or preferably Gak 200 (I think off memory) will seal the oats form additional paint layers. So in short: After you build your oat sea, seal the thing in 4-5 coats of acrylic polymer emulsion (gloss or matte medium in art terms). According to Golden, who is a world leading expert on these kinds of things, this buffering will keep out and keep in any GID or other concerning elements that could affect subsequent layers of paint. It is known that acrylic polymer emulsions (artists gel mediums/acrylic gloss/matte mediums are excellent barrier coats. I think it's pretty important to let the oats fully dry before you do any more top-coating. I imagine that black mould could form inside the sea...but who'd ever see it?...but better be safe and let it dry fully. Once the oats are dry, they'll be coated in glue, then sealed in with layers of barrier coating medium. Considering that they find oats and grains in Egyptian tombs that don't look a day old, I'd say they're pretty inert. My guess: the chemistry is sound.

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Last edited by sargentx on Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:51 am 
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Actually, I have never heard of 'Golden', I gather this is an US American brand ? I always use either trusted European artist's paint brands, such as Schmincke, Winsor&Newton, or indeed Vallejo, who make artist's as well as modeller's paints.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Golden must be N. American thing. Similar to Liquitex. The brands you site are all excellent as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:36 pm 
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Re. Plaster of Paris: one can add some cellulose wall-paper glue to the plaster; this gives you a longer open time and makes it more crack resistant. There are also such mixtures as repair-plasters (e.g. for moulded decorations on ceilings) on the DIY market.

I have used a mixture of sculpting and carving of plaster in the past to make 'rough' seas. The rough shapes are built up in couple of sessions and the resulting rough sea is carved using wood-carving tools. The carving, though, is a bit messy and I would use rotary tools only outside, or your workshop will be covered by a nice icing of plaster. The addition of cellulose glue makes it a bit less messy than plain plaster.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:40 am 
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Hey Chris,

With regard to the epoxy, do you build a mold around the base? I'm debating using legos for height and masking tape for integrity. Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Chris,

Just saw your King George V posted on FB (A link to armorama's site)... Oh.. My... God!!.. That in combination with your Warspite are absolutely breathtaking. Don't be surprised if I ask if I can pay through the nose on international calling and give you a ring from down here in Texas to discuss how to do those seascapes. I've saved this link here so I can refer back to it.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:07 am 
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I would say that finished effect is so good mainly because of observation and an ability to get the colours right and well applied.

I have been thinking of doing this for some time and came up with some ideas that I thought would help with the process. First I thought that wrapping clingfilm around the main hull would enable the model to be removed after building up the sea ( and also to deal with over enthusiastic application of the sea material getting to places it shouldn't ). As long as there were no undercuts it would be easy to remove and replace the model and keep it safe while working on the sea. The clingfilm would be easily removed after the initial sea building stage was complete.

Another idea for representing the bow wave of a fast moving boat, such as a PT Boat, MTB or S-Boot also occurred to me in the form of a vacuum formed R/C model aircraft canopy. Some of these have double curvature and a section of suitable shape could be cut out and inserted into the sea in the correct position to form a basis for the almost clear bow wave which happens when these types are travelling at speed. When set, this could be trimmed and texture could be added with acrylic medium and cotton wool, the whole being blended in realistically to the surrounding sea.

This could also be used on a smaller scale to represent the edge of the bow wave further aft to give the effect of the tumbling or bouncing edge of the wave while it is still above the surface of the sea.

I'd be interested in hearing if this has already been tried or any unforeseen snags with doing this.

I have also been concerned about using a waterline model with a rough sea since, due to the motion of the ship and the wave pattern it produces, the water level will have to drop below the static level at certain points along the side of the hull, so it would be better to use either a full hull or just a section about ¼" to ½" deep and the full length of the hull so that the lower water level could be easily shown. If this is not done, simply building up the water would look more as though the ship was sinking, rather than ploughing through rough water.


Last edited by Iain on Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:55 am 
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I have my reservations about too dramatic scenes, they can easily look like 'kitsch'. However, one could carve from e.g. Balsa-wood or plaster a rough pattern for the bow wave and use this pattern to thermo-form a stiffener from e.g. clear polystyrol. Around this stiffener the actual wave could be modelled with acrylic gel.

Accomplished water-line modeller actually do make the hull a bit deeper, below the CWL, in order to allow for the wave troughs, when the model is set into a scenery.

wefalck

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:19 pm 
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I'm going to be doing some experiments with using a combination of Milliput, some clear silicon, and maybe some cotton to make a bow wave.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Don't use silicon, it exudes acetic acid and cause serious corrosion problems on metal parts, particularly when soldered with lead-containing solders. Silicon is also difficult to sculpt and cannot be trimmed satisfactorily due to its rubbery consistency (which is the purpose of it) use acrylic gel instead.

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