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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Location: Flensburg, Germany
Wow. Could you do that in black and above three funnel tops on Titanic?

I think you would need to leave out the flames... :big_grin:


Happy modelling ~ Olaf!


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:28 pm 
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That would look great for someone's powder magazine going up ie. HMS Hood. :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:37 pm 
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I've read your tutorials quite a few times and am getting ready to set my PBY Catalina in some water with your techniques ... but the one thing I can't seem to figure out is the bulk CA. Do you get it at a hardware store, chain store, mail order? I haven't seen bulk CA glue anywhere around here (Michigan) and buying enough small bottles to equal the amount shown in the bottle pictured is too cost prohibitive. Any thoughts on where I could look? Really itchy to try this method out!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:35 pm 
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sargentx wrote:
I've tweaked and changed my ocean methods quite a bit over the past couple of years. I have worked very hard to develop these strategies so that they conform to the following criteria: Cheap to make, easy to do with easily acquired materials, permanent, fast, non-threatening to the finished ship, and realistic. Here is my USS Wisconsin build that uses the walled-off oat method (below), covered with paper towel and finished with paint, airbrushing, and rayon cotton batting. While I probably wouldn't do a sea with oats these days, the basic concept of covering a textural surface with paper or paper towel to 'bridge' the texture is the key to my wavy water. Ultra calm water requires slightly different approaches. I've tried to lay everything out as best I can in the following links and tutorials.
Attachment:
WISCONSIN03.jpg


As far as I can see, a sea has roughly three aspects to consider: The overall sculpt of the initial sea form, The surface treatment of the sea (wavelets, waves etc.), and the painted finish including wake effects. Each one of these aspects has to be convincing in order for a sea to look realistic.

INITIAL SCULPT
I've done sea sculpts in a variety of ways. I've used plaster, oats and CA glue finished with paper(below), and carved styrofoam, also covered with paper (links provided, also illustrated in this thread).
Plaster is outlined here, though I would never do water this way these days: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156538
Styrofoam Here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=157503&p=637868#p637868
Very calm water with wake swells here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=158909&p=651903#p651903
Oats and CA is outlined below
While each approach can work, I've come to the opinion that styrofoam is the most versatile and easy to work with for any sea condition. These days, I'd do my sea by first carving foam. I'd do the entire sea before attaching the ship. Any cracks along the waterline are easily resolved with more cotton. I outline this in the links above.


SURFACE TREATMENT
I've come to believe that smoother is better for a sea surface. Everything has to be smooth, undulating and free of un-wavelike lumps, grits, cracks, inconsistent 'waves' , pin holes, brushy daubs, and other such tells. I've had a great deal of success using small pieces of regular paper or paper towel that are glued down with either acrylic clear medium or aerosol spray adhesive over the sculpt, be it foam, oats, or whatever. I outline this process here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=157503&p=637868#p637868 Sanded smooth, the overall effect is quite naturalistic.
I've experimented with attempting to fill a lumpy surface with some kind of filler, but nothing works quite so well as collaging paper and acrylic clear medium over a rougher surface to create that smooth undulating effect. I do lots of sanding and nit-picking these days to get it perfect. Coarsely carved styrofoam that is sanded, then covered with paper is probably my most favorite and more successful efforts at making a sea. Many different effects can be produced by applying paper or paper towel to a coarse surface. My HMS Howe and Zerstorer are good examples of this. It's really become my go-to process.
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

For thousands of wavelets, it is possible to lay down a rough surface of oat bran onto a glue layer, let it dry, then glue paper towel on top of it regardless of how your initial sculpt was made. Here is a link to that specific idea: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156536 . Coarsely carved styrofoam that is then covered with paper or paper towel produces the same sort of effects and is more elegant in concept. For a very calm, breezy wavelet look, you could simply use some kind of small tool to make thousands of little dents in styrofoam and finish it with a single sheet of paper towel applied with spray adhesive. After many coats of paint, the look will be very convincing.


For a very calm sea, I've used plaster that I blow with a straw. My Graf Spee was done this way. http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm To be honest, making a sea with a wet material like plaster is messy, risky, and too wild to produce perfect results. The concept of blowing plaster is kind of cool and might work for certain people though.

While plaster can work well for a very calm sea, I again have to say that styrofoam that has been carefully cut and shaped and sanded to perfect smoothness is still the better way to go, followed by a texture treatment. I've been experimenting with a perfectly smooth surface that is first textured with acrylic clear medium then painted. This can work very well for calm water and is outlined in full here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=158909&p=651903#p651903

PAINT FINISH AND FINAL GLOSS
I always paint my seas the same way. I first paint the entire sea a single ocean color, then I go in with an airbrush and a minty color to do the sub-surface aquamarine churn. I have experimented with many different ocean colors and have settled on one specific color that seems to be the most realistic for both photography and real-life presentation. I always use a mixture of black, white, and thalo blue. First I mix a bit of white into my blue to lighten it, then I add small amounts of black until the color approaches something like a blue-jeans hue. For my sub-surface churn, I use a premixed turquoise green that I then add a bit of white to, followed by a drop of black to grey it a bit. I then use acrylic gloss medium and medical cotton puffs to create my whitewater effects. I outline that all here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=157503&p=637868#p637868
As a final gloss, I use Liquitex HIGH gloss acrylic varnish. My Prince of Wales received something like 15 coats of it. It's easily as shiny as epoxy, but permanent and non-yellowing.


OAT METHOD

A warning and strong bit of advice regarding the following procedure, please take note:

Once your oats are frozen in place, it is absolutely critical that you sand the resulting surface until it is as smooth as you can make it. You don't want strange oat bits sticking up, exaggerated lumps, or anything that is out of place. Spend a good 30 minutes sanding your surface until it has an undulating evenness about it. I do not recommend simply painting or applying gel medium to the oats to finish them. It won't be enough and the final look is nauseating to the viewer. The texture must be resolved by filling in the texture. The best and easiest way to do this is by collaging small paper or paper towel pieces onto this surface. The paper will bridge the gaps and produce a very convincing undulation. Here is a link that shows the process of coating a rough surface with paper/paper towel. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=157503&p=637868#p637868


This is a method for making the initial sculpt.
The principle is simple. You take oat bran, shape it until you are happy with it, freeze it with CA glue, sand it, and resolve the surface by collaging paper or paper towel onto it.
For a more comprehensive description of how I do my whitewater and wake look here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=157503&p=637868#p637868

To be really honest, no two seas that I make are exactly the same. http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm. I tweak my methods and try different things from build to build.
While the method below can work really well, it's not without its drawbacks such as the need for bulk CA, the hassle of having to protect the hull, toxicity, and the cost of the materials.

The idea of freezing a dry substance in pace is nice in principle. I've had good luck with it making general landscape forms as well as seas. My Graf Spee diorama as well as my Heian Maru dio were made with oats and CA. http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
The landscapes were made by mounding oats in walled-off areas and simply hitting them with CA. Once cured the oats are sandable and really tough.



Hello Chris,

Many many thanks for your amazing tutorials! I'm practicing the styrofoam method and I'm on model #2 now! It's a u-boat, and I'm trying to find a good way to make the water rushing out of the hull drain holes. Any pointers as to you how you made the water rushing off the deck?

Here is a pic of the u-boot! I've left all the fiddly bits off, until I'm done with the water effects.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:40 pm 
Hello sargentx, I'm a model railroader creating a thread on a RR forum about water, what it looks like in different situations, how to model it and whatever else comes up along the way.

I stumbled upon your posts on ModelWarships general forum from 2013 and later.
Your techniques for modeling ocean water are excellent and go way beyond dabbing Mod Podge on top of blue paint. I would like to include some of your techniques (giving you credit for them) on my thread.
From past experience, many of the forum members do not like clicking on links to sites they are not already familiar with. Beyond posting links for the adventerous modelers, would it be OK with you to copy some of your comments and posts and paste them into my thread? Right off the top I am thinking of some of your intitial thoughts about how and what to do about modeling water realistically, then your oat bran method not only for the terrific results, but also for the thinking outside the routine. Your styrofoam technique is the other I think that would be most applicapble and also modeling smoother waters, since at best a model railroad is more likely to have a protected harbor/waterfront scene than open ocean.
Here is the link to my new thread so you can see where it would be going.
http://railroad-line.com/forum/topic.as ... hichpage=1
If that is acceptable, or if you have questions you could post them here and I can check back. Thanks for your consideration, Bill Gill


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:29 am 
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Posts: 575
Thanks again to SargentX for taking the time to share all his methods. Model water that would genuinely fool you and raises the ship models to a whole new level. Very helpful indeed to know how it was done from scratch.

An potentially useful reference video I came across on Youtube showing the Irish Ferries ferry Isle of Inishmore departing Milford Haven Estuary on her way from Pembroke Dock in Wales to Rosslare in Ireland:

Attachment:
Isle of Inishmore 2019.jpg
Isle of Inishmore 2019.jpg [ 236.07 KiB | Viewed 1171 times ]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW4JQ9LZtX8&t=146s

It is filmed from a headland and the image is lovely and crisp and clear. The majority of it is in bright sunshine too which gives lovely rich colours in the sea. Plenty of food for thought as regards wave and wake patterns in a moderate to rough sea state using SargentX's methods.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:46 am
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Location: Montreal, Canada
When using the oat bran/CA method, does that mean the model is permanently imbedded in the base, and that all further work; sanding, application of paper, more sanding, etc. must be done with the model in place?
:wave_1:


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