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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:30 am 
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check out the gallery of Andrew Ayling.
On his HMS Ajax, he makes some of the best weathering i have ever seen. Very effective!
I just love his filter-technique and how he use the oil colors.
Note how he is shifting the shades at the bright, and at the darker areas.
The red at the waterline (CWL) is bleached with bright tones and interrupted by chipping, just as one can see at some of the frighter pictures above.
He captured a very known feature as well: Weathered Hull and alomst no weathering at superstructure. (Service descriptions at many fleets, maintenance at sea)
Very convincing and realistic weathering, presented on a sharp (scratch!!!) build.

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http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:21 am 
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MöLDERS wrote:
He captured a very known feature as well: Weathered Hull and alomst no weathering at superstructure. (Service descriptions at many fleets, maintenance at sea)


If I understand correctly no weathering at superstructure is the result of its regular painting by crew at sea while the hull paint is renewed only at port at occasion?

Otherwise ship is rusting on hull and superstructure without any difference. Examples:
Image

Image

My contribution to this great thread:

Salt starting to eat the paint on fresh painted ship :heh:
Image
(by the way this is from Naval Warfare Exhibition in St.Petersburg this year - 1:1 ships :heh: )

It was a sort of tradition of Soviet fishers not to paint their ships at all at sea (may be not only Soviet), So most rusty ships still afloat and working are traulers.
Image

Image

And finally a very interesting exhibit - old design with rocket launchers - rusty of course...
Image

Yevgeniy
P.S. MöLDERS, do you have by chance a link (or article) with "filter technique". I never heard of it. Is it another name of "washing technique"? Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:42 am 
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MöLDERS wrote:
Hi Jimmy

Sharp edege at the left side, smooth blending at the right. Ihave seen this at several other pictures as well.
Any idea how this can be happen?



Hi Molders, I think the effect you talk about is due to the ship movement, the sea beats from the left to the right ( in the photo), so it drags the rusty, and gravity and rain pull it down.... What you think? That is just my observation.
Thank you very much for your contribution! :thumbs_up_1:
Jimmy

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:45 am 
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MöLDERS wrote:
check out the gallery of Andrew Ayling.

Very convincing and realistic weathering, presented on a sharp


Hi Molders thanks again for this other nice contribution. Ill be visiting the gallery you point, indeed that is a wonderfull job and exemple for the thread. :wave_1:
Jimmy

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:55 am 
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I think that there is a bit of pattern on rusty attacks: the lower it is ( near the sea...), the more agressive is the effect on the hull.
Not only maintenance, but I think the upper portion of ships are more protected against rusty, just because of distance.
Anyway, the photo is to show how a ship appears when weathered, some heterogeneous effect made by rusty
What do you think?

Thanks Yevgeniy for your comments and contribution on this thread.

Jimmy

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:24 am 
....


Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:13 am 
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Looks too rusty for a warship in parade colors :heh: (it is obviously white paint scheme for Varyag).

Can it be coal dust after loading coal on board or some "coat works"? I am not at all sure but it seems rust would not look so black on white hull - it looks more like coal effect. What do you think?

Yevgeniy


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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:18 am 
.....


Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:31 am 
....


Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:42 am 
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It is very difficult to analyze weathering on b+w photos. With Varyag it can be coal dust as well as the rust. I incline to think it is dust only because there are not ground to think that the ship could be so badly maintained + those black stripes you show go around the places on ship where it could be coaled. Otherwise it can rust the same way (from the middle) as the last ship on the photo I have posted above (http://radikal.ru/F/i069.radikal.ru/090 ... 7.jpg.html).

Later in the evening (from home PC) I will post you a famous b+w pic of Tsesarevich in high res (its being repainted grey heavily disputed on Russian forums) where it looks like scrap :heh: - we believe it is coal dust immediately after coaling :big_grin:


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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:09 am 
.....


Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:43 pm 
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Yevgeniy wrote:
Looks too rusty for a warship in parade colors :heh: (it is obviously white paint scheme for Varyag).

Can it be coal dust after loading coal on board or some "coat works"? I am not at all sure but it seems rust would not look so black on white hull - it looks more like coal effect. What do you think?

Yevgeniy


I vote for coal dust co's there are 4 shadows, and 4 funnels..... they match.
Jimmy

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:19 pm 
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Better later then never - at least I kept the promise to send it today in the evening

Here it is:
Image
(Sorry I could not find the same pic with high res although I am sure I had it)

And the picture taken from different angle at the same day (according to Kronma whom we and personally I do believe :big_grin: )
Image

What they did with the ship I do not know but it looks awfully weathered (or grey) on first photo but it is surely white without any weathering on the second (excepting the conclusion that the ship may be different at different sides :heh: ). We guess it could be sunlight/shadow play on b+w photo as well as coal dust.

Here is the original discussion http://www.cardarmy.ru/forum/viewtopic. ... 97abf9b1b0 (look at messages and links from Grom and Kronma)

Another photo of Tsesarevich in olive grey color (olive-grey color is still disputed by 'white color defendants' in this issue dispite of this photo - they claim that Tsesarevich never was grey)
Image
I marked the area which looks like heavy rust - I believe it is coal dust.

Whatever the case (with Varyag and Tsesarevich) color photo will give us much better understanding and representation of weathering on ships :wave_1:

Yevgeniy


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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:26 pm 
.....


Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:22 pm 
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There is only one person on that forum thinking Tsesarevich could be black - the author of forthcoming cardboard Tsesarevich model - I hope he will change his mind. I wish we had real color photos for that period. But this is another story. Thank you also for close up photo - I did not have it. :wave_1:

Yevgeniy


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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:04 pm 
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This is what happen when you do not maintain your superstructure while on sea a longer period.
Not only waves are responsible for weathering, its the influence of spume and spray. A more or less permanent salt water shower.
I am still convinced that the phenomenon of clean superstructure, rusty hull, is based on the service regulations.
I think it has something to do with upkeeping discipline as well. A busy crew is a tired crew. All what a tired crew wants to do is sleep, and not overtake the command of the ship. :smallsmile:
(Lets say "following orders not the fast and exact they can" )

Today its a little different. I think today the more clean appearance of warships has very much to do with its profile of movement. A warship spends more time in harbour as a merchant use to do.
In a harbour or shipyard you can maintain the whole ship.
Futhermore a clean ship is a signal to external spectators. And of course its tradition.
And imho this tradition is based in service regulations, valid since the late middle ages.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:56 pm 
....


Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:50 am 
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Shall we agree that "consistent invisible line that limits the weathering in many of the photos of working ships " is the deck of the ship? In other words the hull is subject to rusting (and paint peeling off) the degree of which depends but all above the deck including but not limited to: turrets, barrels, superstructures, masts, life-boats and motorboats, etc are shall not be 'rusted' to have a realistic look?

I support this idea notwithstanding what is the cause of such phenomenon (different conditions for weathering or regular maintenance) which does not really matter for a modeler rather than out of curiosity. I use the word 'rusted' instead of 'weathered' as superstructure can be weathered by other means - soot on funnels and masts, soot on barrels (after heavy shooting :heh: :heh: :heh: ), some wear of linuleum decks, oil residue on movable parts in larger scale where it can be visible (like cranes, etc.)

These are my suggestions only so I would wait for other opinions also. I am also much interested in examples (photos, opinions, etc) of wearing out waterline paint (red normally) at stem by bow wave which I have seen somewhere but can not provide any photos of.

Yevgeniy


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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:54 am 
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Thanks fo rgetting involved with all the valuable suggestions, thoughts and opinions.
I think when we took a piece of each comment, we will have worked out some good "food for thought".

What i will withdraw to my current and upcoming models, is that i´ll try to set a difference in hull´s and superstructure´s (sst) weathering.
So i would agree yevgeniy´s adjustment. Cerberusjf´s remarks make me considering more about physical effects. Thanks for that!
At the sst, i will go ahead more decent, and with some brighter brown and grey shades. At the hull with darker and brighter brown colors, applied in sponge technique, and with some filters of various browns, beige and ochre for example. Of course always paired with modulations of the basic color.

This little "think tank - thread" is very inspiriting.
Thanks to all of you for getting involved! :thumbs_up_1:

Lets collect some nice examples of real and model-wheathering for each others inspiration.

How about this one:


Attachments:
File comment: Nice chipping at the stem, with a nice mix of rust and previous coats.
Various shades of grey can be seen on the dark grey painted area.
Some are brighter, some are darker as the base color.

dd1.jpg
dd1.jpg [ 48.98 KiB | Viewed 6951 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Weathering guide
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:52 am 
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When we discussed this photo on another forum we noticed how real old color photos look. They have volume, shades, etc. Obviously old technology for color photos had its benefits

Image

Weathering almost 100% follows the guidelines we discussed above: rust on hull, almost no rust above the deck - I guess it is still present there because it is low destroyer subject to constant flooding.

Yevgeniy


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