Calling all Indian aircraft carrier fans

[space_moose]

These two nations are the future superpowers of the 21st century, both will have more money to spend on their navies then the USN in 2059 and 2018 estimated (and probably spend it more responsibly and cairfully) and they will have to deal with both patrolling an entire ocean named after them and stopping the USN from walking all over them. Would love to be able to get and share information on past present and future projects for these two nice pieces of action that first possess the unbeatable know-how of the RN way of doing things (like the IJN did) and second have developed amazingly pure originality in their strategic and tactical thinking.

INS Ensign



PLAN Ensign



INS Vikramaditya

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... a-line.gif

INS Mig-29k



PLAN Su-33



There are a couple of designer models of the future Indian Air Defense Ship at the links below:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... ia/ads.htm

http://www.defenseworld.net/html/featur ... ndia_s.htm

Then there is my own model of the ADS at this link:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Only use my model as a last resort reference of a reference.

At the moment I am working on a model of the PLAN Shi Lang carrier that might be built out of the Varyag 60% complete Kuznetsov class carrier that was bought as a floating casino a few years ago. I am sctatching my head as to what electronics and weapons systems it will have installed as none were installed in the Varyag when it was delivered, so I decided that it would be installed with the same off the shelf Russian equipment mostly that the Kuznetsov is. I did decided to exclude the whip antenna for no reason except they would break too easily and the Chinese can find something better for sure, and the massive Cake Stand homing beacon at the top of the island because its as big as a house and would have to be designed built from scratcch either in China or made to order as far away as Russia since none have been built since the Kuznetsov in the 1980s, and its not that important.

[ModelMonkey]

Would you know where i can find good references for INS Vikrant?

Cheers,

Rob

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If you want to make the Vikrant you can use the hull from any Majestic or Colossus Class Aircraft carrier kit, Heller makes a good one in 1/400. Then just google all the images from Vikrant then HMS Hercules, the RN reincarnation of the Vikrant and figure it out from there.

The Indian high commissioner to the United Kingdom, Vijayalakshmi Pandit, commissioned her as INS Vikrant on March 4, 1961 while she was still at Belfast, Northern Ireland. The name Vikrant was taken from Sanskrit vikr?nta = "stepped beyond", i.e. "courageous", "victorious". Captain Pritam Singh was the first commanding officer of the carrier. She formally joined the Indian fleet at Bombay on November 3, 1961, when she was received at Ballard Pier by Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and other high-ranking dignitaries.

The Vikrant's initial airwing consisted of British Hawker Sea Hawk fighter-bombers and a French Alize anti-submarine aircraft. On May 18, 1961, the first jet landed on board, piloted by Lieutenant (later Admiral) R H Tahiliani.

In 1965, Pakistan claimed that it had sunk the Vikrant. At the time, however, the ship was under refit in dry dock.

Despite a crack in a boiler, she saw real combat against Pakistan in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. She was considered important enough by the Pakistan Navy that they sent the submarine Ghazi all the way to the Bay of Bengal to mine the Visakhapatnam harbor in an unsuccessful attempt to sink the Vikrant; the Ghazi itself was lost during the mission. The Vikrant played an instrumental role in sinking several Pakistani patrol boats and other naval vessels. During the war the crew of Vikrant earned two Mahavir Chakras and 12 Vir Chakras.

Vikrant was given an extensive refit, including new engines and modernization between 1979 and January 3, 1982. Between December 1982 and February 1983 she was refitted again to enable her to operate Sea Harriers. After the retirement of the Breguet Aliz� from carrier service in 1989, she received a 'ski jump' for more efficient use of her Sea Harriers.

Vikrant was India's only carrier for over twenty years, but by the early 1990s she was effectively out of service because of her poor condition. Even following major overhauls she was rarely put to sea. She was formally decommissioned January 31, 1997 and is preserved as a museum at Mumbai.

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That is pretty much what I have in mind, albeit in 1/700 and the L'Arsenal kit.

What I was wondering is if there are any books with good info on Vikrant in there.

Cheers,

Rob

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Rob,
Information and picture of Vikrant, if you already haven't seen this site:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Majestic.html

A beautiful line diagram of the ship, on the same site:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... t.jpg.html

You can download a larger version too. In general http://www.bharat-rakshak.com is a good reference for Indian armed forces.

Regards,
Prasanna.

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I was delighted to discover today that Vikrant is preserved as a museum! There was all that @#$% about HMS Vengeance/Minas Gerais becoming a museum, they acted like (and maybe even claimed) that she was the last surviving member of her class, but happily Vikrant/Hercules is preserved in Mumbai

I want to build her as she appears now, and am looking for a site that has lots of pics. I'm going the route of scratchbuilding, and want lots of detail pics. I'm building big (think 1/350) and want to add as much detail as possible. I may not start this project until mid-winter, but the more research I can get done now the better. TIA for any info.

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Avery,

Yes, you are right, it is being converted into a museum in Mumbai. But I didn't find many pictures of it online. Could be because the museum is not open to the public yet. The only time when one gets to visit the ship is during Navy week, which is going to be in the first week of december.

Given the lack of photos and reference material on this ship, I am wondering if it is worth hiring a photographer in Mumbai to take some good photos of the ship (if the navy allows it). I don't expect it to cost a lot. I had seen some models of this ship when I was in high school and always wanted to build one. I am very interested to know if you have collected any information about this ship. It will be very interesting when you start the build.

[DennisJP]

Pretty interesting topic considering the Asian Nations are in a Carrier Arms Race. (India, China and it seems Japan and South Korea)
The design of the x Kiev Class Russian Helo Carrier into a regular Carrier is very interesting and as well as India building their first home built Carrier. Believed to be done in a couple years. It is sad in a way though. Building three Carriers (One in Russia and two in India) and they each might hold 40 planes apiece. Seems to be a waist.

[Dave Rowe]

I found this series of images recently, an interesting look at the rebuilding of the old Admiral Gorshkov.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-p ... ditya.html

[Charles Landrum]

Dave,

As a retired Naval officer, who has spent his fair share of time in shipyards, doing just such work, I found this a fascinating view of the makeover, thank you for sharing the link.

Charles

[Dave Rowe]

I'm glad you enjoyed them Charles.

Dave.

[Rob]

Great stuff Dave, thanks.

I did build Vikrant with Ski-jump from the l'Arsenal kit and I think this would be a good follow-up to her.

Cheers,

Rob

[DennisJP]

Looks like India's carrier program is in deep do do. Blowing the boilers out of the x Russian Carrier and delays in their own builds in India.

[Seasick]

Buying anything second hand from Russia is a bad idea. The delays in India are not out of line for carrier that size.

[Dan K]

Has anyone seen this new release from Orange Hobby of a 1/700 Viraat? : http://www.hobbyeasy.com/en/data/huximx ... 04phq.html

[Timmy C]

What are you doing, Dan? That's not IJN!

It looks (appropriately) like their Hermes kit with a new PE fret and some new resin parts, plus helos, to depict her in Indian service.

[Dan K]

It was an accident, I swear!

[ADebroux]

After years of delay the Vikramaditya/ex-Gorshkov is finally and officially handed over to India. Story here: http://news.yahoo.com/indian-navy-gets- ... 03729.html
She's a nice looking ship, like a mini Kuznetsov. Any chance of Hobby Boss making a 1/700 full-hull model of her for 2014, seeing that their Baku already has the shafts, propellers, sonar dome and rudders. But no underwater hull.

[Haijun watcher]

Any chance of Hobby Boss making a 1/700 full-hull model of her for 2014, seeing that their Baku already has the shafts, propellers, sonar dome and rudders. But no underwater hull.

ADebourx,

Have you actually built Hobby Boss's Baku kit as Vikramaditya?

A waterline model kit without a full hull option would suit me just fine.

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For those of you unaware, a 1/700 kit of the Vikrmaditya as the former Soviet carrier Baku (her old name before Gorshkov) is out from Hobby Boss models.

Of course, there will be lots of tweaking and modifying to make the kit look like her current look. Getting the parts for the right air wing will be the least of our worries.

*I've seen the mods remove some outside links at other threads- I take it posting a link to the official Hobby Boss models site is not allowed on threads other than the new kits releases thread?

[ADebroux]

Any chance of Hobby Boss making a 1/700 full-hull model of her for 2014, seeing that their Baku already has the shafts, propellers, sonar dome and rudders. But no underwater hull.

ADebourx,

Have you actually built Hobby Boss's Baku kit as Vikramaditya?

A waterline model kit without a full hull option would suit me just fine.

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For those of you unaware, a 1/700 kit of the Vikrmaditya as the former Soviet carrier Baku (her old name before Gorshkov) is out from Hobby Boss models.

Of course, there will be lots of tweaking and modifying to make the kit look like her current look. Getting the parts for the right air wing will be the least of our worries.

*I've seen the mods remove some outside links at other threads- I take it posting a link to the official Hobby Boss models site is not allowed on threads other than the new kits releases thread?

I haven't tried building the Baku as the Vikramaditya yet. For the time being I'll wait to see if Hobby Boss will put out one later on. When/if they do, I hope it's one with a full-hull option seeing that their Baku kit already has the shafts, propellers and sonar dome but no lower hull to put them on. If not I can try using the Baku island with Trumpeter's Kiev/Minsk kit.

[JasonW]

I haven't tried building the Baku as the Vikramaditya yet. For the time being I'll wait to see if Hobby Boss will put out one later on. When/if they do, I hope it's one with a full-hull option seeing that their Baku kit already has the shafts, propellers and sonar dome but no lower hull to put them on. If not I can try using the Baku island with Trumpeter's Kiev/Minsk kit.

Couple of issues. With the Kiev/Minsk kit there are actually significant differences on the hull and flight deck between the Baku and earlier Kiev/Minsk. Each of the Kiev class ships actually had a few different features on her. The flight deck was expanded on Novorossiysk and she carried a different electronics fit, the Minsk has a couple of different radar/ECM domes from the Kiev. The Baku was the most significantly different of the four ships. In addition to the completely different island, her flight deck was expanded, her weapons fit was completely revised and her hull had substantial differences with regards to sponsons and the deck edge etc.

You'd be hard pressed to do a full hull Baku from a Trumpy Kiev/Minsk without a good amount of serious surgery. You'd have to add the extended deck edge park area behind the island as well as the angle deck edge extension and the noticeable flare along the leading edge of the angle deck. Additionally the front angle deck side sponson is not present on Baku. There are also some molded on features for the bow area you'd have to remove and cover the holes from.

In spite of the fact that Trumpeter has released the Kiev/Minsk and Hobbyboss the Baku we still are no closer to properly representing the ships of the class correctly. I think part of the reason is a lot of folks don't realize how different they really were from one another. The Kiev and Minsk were close to the same fit. The Novorossiysk has some major differences and the Baku was very different from the rest. The Concord Publication book on the Kiev class will give you some decent pictures of the class to work from.

For the Vikramaditya, it gets even more complex. Vastly different from the Baku/Gorshkov she was based on. Lots of additional flight deck space not to mention the ski-jump on the bow. The majority of the island is relatively the same but the weapons fit is vastly different. If Hobbyboss were to do a kit of her, they'd have to come up with a lot of new sprues. I'd think along the line of 50% new as compared to the current Baku kit.

[Neptune]

As far as I know Kiev and Minsk were also substantially different from each other, including different sponsons. Kiev had squared ones in front of the angled deck, where Minsk has a larger more flared and smoothened one.
Deeper research would probably show even more differences as with all Russian ship classes.

[Haijun watcher]

For those wondering about the real INS Vikramaditya and INS Viraat...here's an update:

India�s Largest Carrier INS Vikramaditya Arrives at Karwar Home Port
JANUARY 8, 2014
BY TAMIR ESHEL




Defense Update

India�s newest and biggest ever warship, the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, has arrived yesterday at its home port of Karwar in Karnataka, in the southwestern coast of India, after an uninterrupted six-week sail from northern Russia. In November 2013 the 44,500 ton vessel completed a modification and refurbishment process that lasted nine years.

The aircraft carrier will now go through another refitting necessary to support the air wing that will be operating on board, and new armament, including Barak air and missile defense systems and mission systems that could not be installed in Russia. In few weeks the carrier will begin to support carrier qualification for Indian Navy pilots. The ship has the ability to carry over 30 aircraft comprising an assortment of MiG 29K/Sea Harrier, Kamov 31, Kamov 28, Sea King, ALH-Dhruv and Chetak helicopters. On its way to India Vikramaditya was escorted by a number of naval vessels, including the carrier INS Viraat. As the two carriers were sailing in close formation, Sea Harrier fighters aircraft and Ka-31 helicopters operating from INS Viraat performed simulated landings and take offs on the Vikramaditya.

< Edited >

[Dan K]

Great photo. Thx for posting.

[DougC]

INS Viraat is about to be broken up. She arrived in Gujarat end of Sept. She is now beached there.

She is the last Centaur class carrier with 58 years of active service.

A tragedy.