The Ship Model Forum

From the Maryland Silver Company:

http://www.marylandsilver.com/new_page_17.htm

Bob

Jake,

Where can I get a copy of the photo with the 5 F4Fs? I know I say it on the WEB a few weeks ago, but can't find where I saw it. I am planning my build of the Hornet during the Doolittle Raid and thought that picture would be a good one to use for the aircraft arrangement.

Frank

Where can I get a copy of the photo with the 5 F4Fs? I know I say it on the WEB a few weeks ago, but can't find where I saw it. I am planning my build of the Hornet during the Doolittle Raid and thought that picture would be a good one to use for the aircraft arrangement.

Frank


[/quote]

Hello Frank,

The photos I found are in the book "WARSHIP PICTORIAL #9/YORKTOWN CLASS CARRIERS" (page 54 & 55). I dont remember seeing the photo with the 5 F4F's on the WEB but at WWW.MARITIMEQUEST.COM you'll find all the photos of the HORNET that you may ever need. Happy modeling, Jake

The Nautilus wooden deck is pretty to look at but its a shame that they did not take the time to make it correctly.There are not enough plank lines,tiedown lines or wind break slats.I wish I would have paid more attn before I spent the money.

Jake

Jake,

Thanks for your reply. I had found the MariTime Quest site you mentioned and you are correct; great pictures of the Hornet. Seem's I will need to get a copy of the Warships Pictorial #9. Oh well, got to keep the economy rolling.

Frank

Does the blueprint book show plans for the braces and girders under the flight deck?

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http://www.USS-Silversides.com

I'd like to know the answer to that question too before I mail away for it,but if it helps,the same Warship Pictorial #9 book mentioned above has a great shot of the Hornets hanger looking aft at a slightly upwards angle and shows enough of the braces and girders to know what they looked like for most of its length. It also gives a good shot of the structure thats just below the flight decks superstructure/island.In the distance you can even see the opening in the ceiling for the middle elevator and the opening for the aft elevator.Actually anyone builing any of the Yorktown class should have this book. Jake

What colors should be used for the Hornet's Measure 12 (modified) scheme used during the Doolittle raid? Are the two colors for the hull different that the colors used on the island?

Should the interior of the hanger deck be flat white/buff/something else? Should the deck and bulkheads be the same color?

Also, how accurate are the Trumpeter 1/350 color drawings as far as the shapes of the Measure 12 mod) patterns for the two sides of the Hornet?

Mike,

Where is the "Island Rebuild" thread you are referencing?

The three vertical colors used on Hornet are Navy Blue 5-N on the lower hull and Ocean Gray 5-O on the upper hull. The island is Ocean Gray 5-O and Haze Gray 5-H, which is the lighter shade. Metal weather decks were Deck Blue 20-B except the flight deck, which was Norfolk 250-N Blue Flight Deck Stain (a similar shade). Interior of the hangar should be white vertical and overhead surfaces and Deck Gray #20 decks up the the threshold of the exterior openings. Deck Gray #20 was a neutral gray, all the exterior camo grays are actually blue-grays.

The Trumpeter color drawings are not accurate. Good photos, including color, are readily available on the internet, The Trumpeter hull is not accurate. Read this thread from the start. The Trumpeter kit is not accurate. Get the picture?!

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Mike

Mike,

Thank you for the listings of the colors. From photos I have seen, it looked as though the island was a different color combination.

I know there are limitations to the Trumpeter kit, but I was asked by a friend (whose father served on the Hornet) to build the kit for him, so I wanted to get at least the colors correct. Since I am not planning to enter this into any competitions, I can put up with a model that is not totally accurate.

Do you know if the masks that are made by Gator's masks are any good or would the best bet be to get photos from the internat and draw my own masks?

Frank

Frank, I do believe Kenny updated the 1/350 masks when he updated the 1/700 ones which I have in my posession. You can't go wrong with getting the Gator masks.

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If ya lose yer sense of humor...
You've lost everything...

On the Bench:
1/720 Italeri CVN-68 ca 1976/77
1/800 ARii 1/800 CV-59 backdating to 1961 (CVA-59)
1/700Trumpy USS Hornet CV-8 "Doolittle Raiders"

Frank, I know the effect. It is an optical trick that the eyes play when the lighter color in a pair of colors becomes the darker one, but if you isolate the 5-O on the hull and the island, you will see they are really the same. Did your friend have any photos of Hornet from his dad? Always on the look-out! Are you building waterline or full hull? You can minimize the impact hull inaccuracies on a WL model a bit better. Let us know how she turns out. The hull I have been trying to bring into line by filling with resin and grinding down to shape did a full melt down. The Trumpy plastic just started bubbling up and softening. Bad reaction somewhere...its a goner. I have several more kits in the stash. I think I may have to scratch build a hull, and if I have to go that route, I might do it much bigger than 1/350. Searching for proper aircraft in bigger scales now. 1/144 looks promising for detailed naval aircraft, but the only B-25 is a J/H by Minicraft, and it is atrocious! Or, I can get busy on my Revell kits and do the whole class in several rigs each. Again, good aircraft are the issue, but easier to coble up in 1/487 scale. I have some 1/500 White Ensign ones that will work. (John, if your listening MAKE MORE!!!!)

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Mike

The thread this refers to was from the summer of 2007, and has been relocated on this website. It can be found here.

With the input of others, this is a consolidation of all I could find about correcting Trumpeter's 1/350 island. It touches on hull and hangar corrections as well. Hope you find it useful.

My Hornet build has been languishing in the box for too long. I finally picked up a WEM CXAM and Paperlab searchlights for it, so maybe its time to get back to work.

Mike

The Maryland Silver plan book provides a crap load of details - some of which you'd maybe rather not know since it will drive you nuts trying to model it. It does show the braces just about everywhere. BUT. You still need the photos because the ship did not look exactly like the plans (in some areas anyway) for very long after it was launched. As you leaf back through these pages of responses, you'll see what I mean about the mods. Unfortunately, you'll often find there are no photos of exactly the spot you need, so the plans are as good as anything as a point from which to diverge. The MS plans were worth the money to me. Equally as worthwhile to my (on-going) HORNET project are the words and photos of Mike Sills and Mike Vorrasi. You'll never get it perfect, but most of what you'll need is here.

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Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

Mike V -
Say it isn't so! Melting, melting! I'm melting!

For what it's worth to those who haven't yet started, I have tried about everything in the many years I've been trying to complete the HORNET. If I were to start over, I would make the hull out of wood - probably Basswood - using the so-called 'lift method'. I am nearly done carving and shaping (and lengthening) the resin BWN hull to match the hull lines drawings. Before resorting to this method (again - it was the one I first tried) I had thought I could a.) heat and pull in the Trump hull with appropriate internal bracing, or b.) fill the hull forward section with resin then grind it to shape, or c.) graft another ship's bow onto the Trump hull, or . . . . .
If you really want the hull even close, the carving method is the only way to go. Sorry, I wish there was an easier, softer way. There is almost no place on the hull that is flat for any distance. (Yes, I know the hangar deck edge is parallel for a considerable length, but the hull is not parallel except for a short distance amidships, and it flares up to meet the hangar deck with varying degrees of flare depending on where along the hull you are looking.
I get wound up about this because the ship's hull lines are very graceful, and I mean to capture them as best as I can. I respect others who take a different route, as Lord knows I could have been done a long time ago if I'd chosen not to be this anal. But guys like the two Mikes keep egging me on to do better, so blame them.

_________________
Some people make you happy, then they leave.
Others make you happy when they leave. (apologies to Oscar Wilde if he ever said anything similar, of which there is some doubt . . .)

It's bubbling up like a witches' caldrun! Big blobs of gray Trumpy plastic oozing out everywhere. I'm waiting for Dorothy to click her heals and take me back to Kansas. LOL

I'm thinking frame and skin rather than lift. I used to built flying model planes out of wood that way, so no new skill development needed. Also, less carving!

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Mike

For whatever its worth I've been building plastic models since I was 7 years old and have always kept to myself about how I do what I do in the world of modeling,I'm just private that way and I've always enjoyed watching people say, "I wonder how he did that."That being said,I'm 46 years old now and recently joined the Ship Modelers Association in Southern California to expand my knowledge of wooden ship modeling simply because I was commisioned to build one and needed some incite on Rigging of Period Ships.Anyways,I was at one meeting recently and became aware that one of the members is very knowledgeable about WWII Carriers (which have recently become a passion for me).He turned me on to ModelWarships.com and as a result over the past couple of months I've been really enjoying myself asking questions,giving comments,etc,etc.Keep in mind I've never done anything like this in my life. I think I'm enjoying this because I dont have to deal with alot of small talk out in the open. Anyways Please bear with me as I go on and believe me when I say I dont want to offend anyone but I get a strong sense of "over engineering" as I read alot of whats said and asked in this forum.I think I'm as much of a perfectionist as any devote modeler but I have found in my years of modeling that the simplest approach is usually the best. Now I get to the main reason for this submission;I've noticed that quite a few people have battled with trying to get the Trumpeters 1/350 Hornets bow and hull to the correct shape.Keep it simple,everything you need is right there in front of you. It involves first:removing the first two cross pcs at the water line at the bow,then cut through the rest of the cross pcs down the center and shave away about 5/32nds inch of their width.Rejoin the ends of these cross pcs and use some evergreen sheet (.040 thick)on the upper sides to keep them strong.Next: take some .060 sheet and cut out pcs to fill in the spots under the cross pcs,(what your doing here is simply replacing the part of the red waterline hull that fits into the notched area under the cross pcs) this should result in a completely flat bottom (sand the .060 if needed to make sure everything ends up nice and flat) except for the forward section where you removed the first two cross pcs.Do not fill in this area yet.I made the fill in pcs in sections from cross pc to cross pc and one for the rear(5 pcs total).I found this easier then making one long pc.Now: take the middle and aft hanger decks and shave off about 3/64ths inch of both sides from both but none from the very back of the aft portion.The areas adjacent to the fore and aft elevators will need some close attention,you will not want to shave away so much from the aft deck that it just falls in nice and easy,you'll want the hull to expand slightly all along its length to start to create that flared look that you see clearly just below the hanger level,you will add more plastic later to really bring that flare to life.At the forward elevator area you can cut away a little more from the sides,these areas are better if they do not touch the hull because this will help when you start to bend the forward section to get the nice curves going toward the bow.The middle section should go on first,just make sure you test fit both sections together before glueing (liquid cement is best) and remember the hull should have to stretch out slightly.Add glue a little at a time as you go along.I let mine sit with some makeshift weights on top until I was sure the glue cured overnight. Oh well, please let me know if anyone is interested in hearing more,its getting late and I would not want to rush through this. I'm sure if you ponder what I've said so far you'll see how really easy this is and dont worry I know that what I've said so far prompts alot of questions.I'm pretty sure I'll have the answers.Looking forward to your comments,Jake Hernandez

Jake,

I would be interested in hearing more of your hull remake. The Hornet is on my list of ships to build and am interested in how to get the hull shape corrected. Pictures would also be a big help. I was thinking of using thin sheet plastic and build the hull in a manner similar to building wings for balsa aircraft (ribs covered with tissue paper, but with the plastic in place of the paper). Looking forward to hear more.

Jake,
Another oldtimer here! Started at 5 myself, now coming up on 54! Your method had been my original plan of action. Once I started measuring and comparing the the ship's actual blueprints, I realized that only a minimal correction was possible. Anything further would either badly distort the existing hull, or simply was beyond what it could be bent into. Once you measure the waterline beam at the main hangar deck forward catapult opening, you will see that the Trumpeter hull is fully double the distance of the real ship's scale dimension. Styrene has its limits. For a waterline hull, it might be live-able. I would love to see photos of what you have done though.

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Mike